Measuring meds in a syringe

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 2:09 am


OK... I hope this is not too confusing!

When you measure meds in a syringe, do you include the medicine that remains in the "hub" after you give it to the pig? So, when I measure the Ivermectin, I draw .03 into the syringe (AND some is also in the hub.) BUT when I give it to the pig, there is always some left in the hub. Also, if I measure the .03 and then pull back on the plunger to empty the hub, it reads .04 with the top of the med being at the top measuring line. I ASSUME that since the med stays in the hub it doesn´t matter.

Here´s another situation. Sometimes after I give the med I also give some liquid vit c because it tastes good! So... if I use the same syringe to Immediately draw up the vit, then part of the med that was left in the hub gets into the pig too.

Egaaads... I hope this makes sense! I think if you have used syringes it will. I hope!

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 7:31 am


Yes, it makes sense.

Two things, I think the amount of medicine is very very tiny.
I think it is not included in the measured amount and is expected to be left.

If you are giving a larger amount (like diluted ivermectin or some antibiotic), it would probably not hurt to give the excess. But if the measured amount is also very very small, it could skew the dose.

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:57 am


That´s about what I thought. The hub is pretty darn small now that I think about it, but when you are measurring that tiny amount everything seems to count! I wish they would make Ivermectin just for piggies that was easy to dose! Thank you, Lynx, for making some sense of my post!

Kara

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CenterFielderNo5

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 12:24 pm


Liquid vitamin C that tastes good? Where? How? Tell me where to find it!!!!!!!!!! :D

imanut4u

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 3:49 pm


I asked my vet this same question --- the "hub" contents are NOT accounted for when you measure. If you need .03 only draw .03 ignoring the hub still being full after you dispense the med.

I personally would always clean the syringe before taking up another med, esp if you are drawing from the "main" container (IE vit C bottle) you´ve got germs on the used syringe.

If you put the C in a separate container before using a "used" syringe, it may not matter depending on what you dosed first (overdose).

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:01 pm


The Vitamin C that I give them is from GNC. It is called Liquid Vitamin C Dietary Supplement. The piggers like it, but I have NOT tasted it! They seems to think it is just dandy and it probably taste a lot better than the Ivermectin!

imanut4u... Thank you for the "hub" info.! It would probably be best to empty out the syringe before I give the vit, although it is such a small amount and is diluted even more by the vit c it probably does´t matter.

I don´t draw the vit c from the container. I put a tiny amount in a small cup and use it just for that pig. Then I wash and am off to the next pig! Quite a process! Also, my Ivermectin has the rubber on top so I draw it up with a new syringe and then put it into a dosing syringe. So the Ivermectin is never contaminated. I tell you, these pigs get the royal treatment!

Kara

Kara

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CenterFielderNo5

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:22 pm


Kara,

I checked out GNC a few weeks ago, and the only liquid vitamin C they had was supplemented with niacin. If this is the one you´re using, STOP! It can only cause problems for your piggies in the long run.

Talking about royal treatment, I just brought in one of my 7 week old babies to the vet because he had a little blister behind his ear. Turns out it was filled with fluid and had a lot of bacteria. So one needle poke and $294 later, his "bubble" is popped, and the vet is going to tell me what kind of stuff was in the fluid when the lab tests come back next week.

I also picked up some ultra-sweet liquid C at the vet that has enough sugar in one CC to make King Kong Bundy even fatter. The vet insists on giving a 100mg dose every day, but with the amount of sugar in it, I figure I´ll only use it 3-4 times a week, and even then only give about 75mg doses. Seems this liquid C is so sweet that my piggies refuse to try any other liquid C with slightly less sugar. That´s why I was asking about it in the first place.

Thanks for bringing up the whole "hub" question in the first place. Now that the little baby is on antibiotics, it´s even more relevant to me. I´m glad you got me thinking about it.

Scott

P.S. Ever heard of tribrissen?

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Jill

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:33 pm


$294! For one visit? Yikes.
Scott, try searching under the Guinea Lynx link at the top of the page for Tribrissen. There is information on safe meds there.

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:45 pm


Yes, it is the one with niacin, but I remember hearing that it was ok! Thank you for telling me. I will have to look into it! They have not had very much at all, because I have just been using it with the Ivermectin.

Does anyone know what problems niacin might cause?

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cmtigger

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 7:23 pm


Niacin should be safe. I have been to a decent vet who also reccommends that brand for ill pigs. You can get more pure stuff at health food stores, but then you are dealing with pure ascorbic acid, and if the concentration is too high, it can burn.

Tribrussin is a very safe sulfa drug. I agree that $295 is way too much for a visit too. Even for an emergency visit (at 11 at night) I paid just under $200 to have a boar´s wound stapled back together- and tribrussin. It is supposed to be very effective against the types of bacteria that cause abscesses.

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:27 pm


OK! I thought I had heard that it was ok. They sure do like it!

Kara

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 8:32 pm


That is quite a bit of money. Did they give you a break down of what it was for? Was there any surgery involved? Any anesthetics? What part of the country do you live in?

It might be worth trying to find a different vet. I had a spay that cost under $140. With no further info, the charges certainly sound excessive.

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CenterFielderNo5

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 9:25 pm


I live in NY, about 40 miles north of the city. The breakdown is as follows:

Tribrissen $7.00

Aspirate Fine Needle (AKA vet poked the lump/cyst/abcess with a needle and saved the fluid that came out) $40.00

General checkup $85.00

LabWork - Culture $65.00

LabWork - Cytology $73.00

Liquid Vitamin C (extremely high in sugar) $24.00

I know this place is outrageously expensive, but the exotics vets working at this clinic split time between here and the NYC Animal Medical Center, which has a reputation of being the best of the best in vet care.

I don´t doubt that another, much cheaper vet could have obtained the same success in treating this one specific problem. The main reason why I use this vet is because there is always an exotics specialist on hand 24 hours a day and it´s only a mile from my house.

Even if I went to a cheaper vet for routine checkups, I would still probably go to this place in a REAL emergency, and it will definitely be helpful for them to have full medical records of my pets in such a situation. I don´t like paying their crazy prices, but if you have human children, you´ll understand.

As far as the vitamin C goes, I´m not sure about the niacin. If your guinea pigs aren´t showing any side effects, then I guess it´s ok, but I´m extrememly conservative when it comes to any supplements I give them. I´d rather pay $24.00 a bottle for the vitamin C, despite the fact that it´s extremely high in sugar and will make them fat, than give them more of a B vitamin than is safe for a lot of humans. And even though it´s expensive, it will give me a full supply of C for all five of my piggies for the next six weeks.

Scott

pinta

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 9:42 pm


I never mix meds with flavoured syrup. I give pills straight and liquids straight. Some of our pig meds are compounded at a pharmacy, usually in grape suspension. but I don´t think the pigs care what the frlavour is. The pharmacy gave us cherry suspension once but we sent it back when we realised drops of the med looked like blood. Too confusing to deal with.

Considering pigs love dandelions(bitter), I don´t think a quick 0.2 squirt of a bitter med is going to be a big deal. In fact, the more volume of fluid, the stronger chance they will let some dribble out. It is much harder to get 1cc of liquid in a pig tham 0.2cc.

If you give the meds straight then you don´t have to worry about the pigs dribbling out some of the dose or that they are getting too much sugar.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 10:07 pm


It does at least seem they are thorough. If there is something to worry about, if anyone is going to catch it, they will. Often vets guess at the meds without doing a workup. Doing it that way, they should know if the med they provided you with will work.

You certainly are fortunate having them a mile from your house!

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CenterFielderNo5

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 10:22 pm


Thanks for the advice, but 2 of my 5 pigs are EXTREMELY picky eaters. The only reason I deal with liquid C at all is because they won´t eat the chewable tablets. Usually, I keep the tablets on hand for the other 3 less picky eaters, but I occasionally give the liquid to them too.

Believe me when I tell you that it´s a lot easier to get a full cc of a sweet syrup that they actually want to eat into their mouths than to force ANY amount of a bitter, sour, grainy formula. They just back away and I usually can´t even get the syringe into their mouths unless I hold their heads so tight I´m practically choking them. Then they still dribble. I´ve tried at least 4 different liquid C formulas, and this sweet one is the only one they like. One of them was so bad that even my other 3, who will all eat ANYTHING, didn´t like it.

How much sugar can actually be in .75 cc of the syrup? I figure it can´t be more than half a gram of sugar max, which has 2 calories. Considering that a small piece of red pepper has about 5 to 10 calories, the extra sugar shouldn´t be a big deal.

Scott

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:09 pm


You´re not worried about cavities? ;)

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cmtigger

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:17 pm


I can go to the vet school at UC davis for my animals too. Does that mean that I will? not always. Only if it is an emergency, and the one emergency clinic who treats cavies within a half hour doesn´t have their exotic vet in. The vet school actually reccommended this clinic to me. I have found that most of the vets in the area do keep up on the info from UCD anyway, and in extreme cases will refer you there. The test bills sound right, but the exam seems high, I don´t think that I have paid over $40 or $50 for an exam, $60 for the emergency.

I´ve also found that you can get just about anything down with a syringe, whether or not the pig likes the taste.
Last edited by cmtigger on Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pinta

Post   » Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:18 pm


Hmmmm....your pigs are able to back away? I hold my pigs to give meds and don´t give them an option to leave. Only one really likes the C tablets. For the rest of them I just chuck the sectioned pill in behind the teeth and back to the molars and I´m done.

Dealing with 12 syringes, 3 drops and the occasional antibiotic pill(last week baytril and sulfa)daily I can guarantee you it´s easier and faster to get a tiny bit of liquid in than a full cc. Maybe it takes experience but I´ve yet to meet a pig I couldn´t dose AND get all the meds inside. Even skittish rescue pigs.

The problem with larger volumes of meds is that you have to make sure they are chewing while you syringe. Otherwise they "close" their throat and the med dribbles out. This is time-consuming with particularly stubborn pigs. When you do it every day(some meds twice daily), you want to do anything possible to save time.

http://guinealynx.info/guinealynx/findingavet.html#tips

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KarasKavies
For the love of my girls!

Post   » Fri Mar 08, 2002 12:22 am


I do have to say, I get the .03 Ivermectin in them with NO problem! I am fast and take them by surprise! In it goes and nothing comes out but their cute, little, pink tongues! I only use the vit c as a "chaser" as Teresa puts it! As long as they don´t smell the Ivermectin coming, I just steady their head and open their mouth and in it goes. I think it is important not to let them smell it. The only time I had a little fight with Tubbit is when she "knew" it was coming!

Kara

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