Boars together?

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cindy29

Post   » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:08 pm


Charybdis,

So you think I should not get another male unless I move the boys away from the girls.
right

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:17 pm


Just a thought - We have four sows and six boars living together in a cage with nothing more than a simple one-grid divider down the middle. Everyone gets along, and a MAJOR source of entertainment for everyone is rumblestrutting up and down the center divider, and poking noses through to see the members of the opposite sex. We have only had one fight, and we believe this was a personality issue between two recently introduced boars, and not the typical situation. If you wanted to get another boar for the boar side of your cage, I would try that FIRST. And if they fight over the girl on the other side of the bars, then you could separate the cages a bit.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:18 pm


I just don't like neutering for any reasons that aren't medical.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Dec 31, 2002 6:40 pm


Saying you can't have a group of boys in one cage and a group of girls in another is just as bad as saying you can't put boars together or they'll fight. Paravati is a case in point.

Vicki of JPGPR has many groups she cares for and they get along in the same room fine. Other rescues have the same experience.

I wouldn't want to promote more misconceptions.

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jenny

Post   » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:39 pm


Paravati, "rumblestrutting down the center isle", maybe you should call that the "red light district". hehe

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:45 pm


Saying you can't have a group of boys in one cage and a group of girls in another is just as bad as saying you can't put boars together or they'll fight. Paravati is a case in point.
Not that I'm saying definitively that the living arrangements contributed to this, but didn't Paravati recently have 2 boars badly injured from fighting?

It's up to Cindy what she decides to do--I'm not saying that it CAN'T be done.

However, I have noticed (and heard from other people), that boars housed near females will escalate from rumblestrutting, bar-chewing, to spraying and then fighting with each other. They will even start squabbling if I put them down to run on a blanket that sows have just been on.

Pavarati's pigs MAY be the exception, but due to her recent experience, I doubt it.

To back myself up, here is Teresa's quote:
The bottom line is one boar per group of females. We have not been able to successfully introduce a second boar to one or more females. It's a combination that rarely works. We have heard of a few cases of this working, but they have been in larger herds which have a significant degree of free-range
I think it stands to reason that boars housed ADJACENT to females may also not work. This is not to say, Lynx, that you can't have, as you said "a group of boys in one cage and a group of girls in another." I'm just not so sure that they can work out NEXT to each other in the majority of cases.

You know that I would be the last person who would want to contribute to more myths about boars. But you do have to recognize their limitations.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:54 pm


Well, I agree with both Lynx and Charybdis in this instance.. but I believe that the way we introduced our boars that later fought was a significant factor in the fight to begin with.

The underlying circumstances were these.. The boars were all getting along in THEIR side of the cage, with no problems.. And the girls were in their side, and everyone was happy. We decided to flop sides after adopting out some sows, since we ended up with fewer sows and more boars... And the sow side of the cage was bigger. So we took everyone out and switched the sides - WITHOUT cleaning the cage thoroughly (Removing the fleece liner with a clean one, etc.) THAT was our mistake.

The boars got dumped in the sow side of the cage, which was reeking of "sow scent", and one of the sows we found out later was in heat. Also, combined WITH that, was the fact that we then threw Charley in there without a "proper" introduction time. That's why we just happened to be standing in the room when they fought - We were waiting, with fingers crossed, to make sure nothing happened. Well, it did, and now I feel like a sh*t because I feel that the entire situation was my fault.

So - I'm going to keep the current arrangement, because with the injured boar out of the cage while he heals, and the other boar he fought with out of the cage in another room along with the baby he's being adopted out with as a pair, the other three boars we have in there get along fine (even with sow smell in the cage.) I think it was more a matter of the two only adult boars in there getting dumped into a cage that reeked of sow and fighting for dominance.

When Tigger heals, he's going back in there. And I know it'll be ok, because there aren't any other boars in there that are his age - Everyone else is younger. (Except for Tommy, who is such a puss that if you look at him sideways he squeaks and runs into his pigloo). We never have problems wtih Tommy.

So even though I've had a fight, I feel that it was my being slack that caused it. I was NOT a good pig mama, and made my pigs nervous and frustrated, and caused them to fight. It is NOT going to prevent me from keeping on with what was up until then, a working situation where all my pigs are happy.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 2:54 pm


I think it stands to reason that boars housed ADJACENT to females may also not work. I disagree vociferously. Ask Cara, who has a bunch of each. There are more people who have groups of males and groups of females. I'm sticking with this being just as bad as saying you can't put boars together or they'll fight.

Perhaps those people who do have groups of each can share their experiences. But I think you'll find you are going down the wrong road (hey, we gotta fight for something!!).

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:01 pm


Of course you do. And I'll be happy to be proved wrong on this. So let's hear some stories!

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 3:10 pm


Well I'll keep everyone updated on this situation as it develops. The reason we didn't switch out the fleece when we changed sides was that it was only 2 days old (not messy yet at all) and I didn't realize that "sow scent" would have been that strong after only a day and a half or 2 days. I am still SO LEARNING about all this stuff.

We're changing it out again today with a new, fresh from the dryer liner, and putting Tigger back in the new boar side with the other three boars. We're also going to put even more food bowls, water bottles, and hidey spots in there just to make sure. The boar side of the cage is 5 cubes x 4 cubes square, with an upper deck that makes a C along the back wall and lets everyone go upstairs to run through tubing and play in boxes, etc. Tommy goes up there to hide when the babies get to popcorning too much for his liking, and Tigger likes to hide out downstairs under the ramp. I have a feeling this will all work out.

I was just stupid because I thought that since I had introduced Tigger and Tommy, Spaz, S'more, Baby E, and Pippin to the boar cage (with NO introduction) and they had all gotten along fabulously, that I wouldn't need to "introduce" Charley. I was wrong. I will pay more attention to age, personalities, dom/sub attitudes, etc. the next time. But I'm going to keep housing my boars together in as large a number as I can to keep it to a 'herd' situation, make cleaning cages easier, and keep them all happy with a large number of friends.

Charybdis

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:39 pm


Para, I think it's great that you can do that. I obviously can't because of quarantine concerns, what with new ones coming in all the time--and then the constant surrenders & adoptions would make it difficult to give them stability in living quarters.

Like I said to Lynx, I'm perfectly willing to change my mind about this...just need to hear some stories from people who have kept more than one boar with or adjacent to females. I need to know their caging arrangements, if they're in cages at all, numbers involved, etc.

Until then I will reserve judgement on this issue.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Wed Jan 01, 2003 9:59 pm


Well, we have some of the same concerns here, actually. We have a separate room in the house devoted to quarantine. But with a recent slow period in incoming pigs, everyone finished up their I/A treatments at the same time and we decided to house everyone together for a spell to get rid of having to clean 9 cages. So far, except for the one fight, it's working beautifully.

The two boars who are being adopted out have been moved to their own cage, since one of them is the one Tigger was fighting with. The adult boar, Charley, and baby Pippin have turned in to best friends. They sleep in the hay box together, climb into the corner litter pan filled with shavings together, and sleep side by side with opposite back feet stretched out.

The rest in the "regular" pig room we are all keeping as personal pets for one reason or another - injuries, long term illnesses, etc.

Any new incomings get spaced out in their own cages around the house after they go through Quarantine. I will still continue to try different boars out with each other when they come in to see if I can create boar pairs or threesomes that get along, because we simply do NOT have the space to put each boar that comes in in his very own cage. It's necessity more than it is "to prove a point".

I'll post a pic here of the new cage we have for our regulars, with the sows and boars divided by just a wall.

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