Satins and bone loss--Attn: Hollister families
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KarasKavies
- For the love of my girls!
OK. It's strange. When I first log in, it says that this thread only has 4 pages.
Update:
Just to recap, Elvis was x-rayed on June 4 and it showed terrible bone loss.
I started him on 75mg of calcium lactate, split into two doses, morning and night before his veggies. I found the gel capsules and mix it with Odwalla Superfood.
Just so I document it here, the capsules are 200mg calcium lactate with nothing else in them. I open up 6 capsules (1200mg) and mix it with 36cc of Odwalla. The dose I give is 1.5ml in the am and 1.5ml in the pm.
In addition, he either goes outside for about 20 minutes on sunny days or spends 10 minutes a day in his "tanning booth" using a 13watt Super UV coil lamp.
We decided to try using the hormone, calcitonin, that regulates the passing of calcium from the blood stream to bones to see if this would reverse his bone loss. This requires supplementing with calcium for a while to guard against heart problems. In the meantime, my vet researched and worked out a dosage amount/schedule.
I took him in today to draw blood for baseline numbers and to do another x-ray as a base before we started the calcitonin.
I'm happy to say, the x-ray showed a great improvement in his bone density with just the calcium supplementing and UV treatment. It's still not "normal," but much improved.
As a result, we're not going to do the calcitonin, but continue with the supplementing and take it from here.
I borrowed the x-rays, and hopefully, someone around here can scan them and help me get them here.
So, Pinta, we now have two documented cases where satins have shown improvement with supplementing. Pinta, you and the other information here really are an invaluable resource.
Just to recap, Elvis was x-rayed on June 4 and it showed terrible bone loss.
I started him on 75mg of calcium lactate, split into two doses, morning and night before his veggies. I found the gel capsules and mix it with Odwalla Superfood.
Just so I document it here, the capsules are 200mg calcium lactate with nothing else in them. I open up 6 capsules (1200mg) and mix it with 36cc of Odwalla. The dose I give is 1.5ml in the am and 1.5ml in the pm.
In addition, he either goes outside for about 20 minutes on sunny days or spends 10 minutes a day in his "tanning booth" using a 13watt Super UV coil lamp.
We decided to try using the hormone, calcitonin, that regulates the passing of calcium from the blood stream to bones to see if this would reverse his bone loss. This requires supplementing with calcium for a while to guard against heart problems. In the meantime, my vet researched and worked out a dosage amount/schedule.
I took him in today to draw blood for baseline numbers and to do another x-ray as a base before we started the calcitonin.
I'm happy to say, the x-ray showed a great improvement in his bone density with just the calcium supplementing and UV treatment. It's still not "normal," but much improved.
As a result, we're not going to do the calcitonin, but continue with the supplementing and take it from here.
I borrowed the x-rays, and hopefully, someone around here can scan them and help me get them here.
So, Pinta, we now have two documented cases where satins have shown improvement with supplementing. Pinta, you and the other information here really are an invaluable resource.
-
KarasKavies
- For the love of my girls!
I am SO happy to hear of his improvement! Now he can sway his hips again!
Thank you for documenting all of this. Thank you to you and Pinta for caring enough to treat these pigs and offer help and hope to others.
Thank you for documenting all of this. Thank you to you and Pinta for caring enough to treat these pigs and offer help and hope to others.
Becky! Congratulations on your success so far! Any reason why the calcium lactate as opposed to other forms? (I am not questioning -- merely asking to ensure I'm not screwing up with my g'pig.)
The reason that I ask is because I have had my Satin (diagnosed with calcium deficiency by x-ray) on a blend of calcium citrate/calcium carbonate and the ratio of magnesium, zinc, potassium and Vit D that is recommended in "Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals," Fourth Revised Edition, 1995 which is posted on the Nutrition Links section of Guinea Lynx. She's doing remarkably well after 5 months of supplementation. I asked my vet about taking another set of x-rays and she agreed with me that since Sierra is doing so well and scurrying around that it's working so x-rays not necessary.
Theresa - ditto to your "fire!" I purchased my Sierra from an ACBA breeder. Sierra was my second Satin from the same breeder that has this problem. I notified him but he never responded. I don't know how anyone that loves these dear animals can ethically continue breeding them when there's a known genetic problem. I knew nothing of this disease with my first Satin and it was horrible. Absolutely horrible what the poor dear had to endure because me and my vet didn't know what was happening.
Becky, so pleased that your Elvis is doing so much better! I wish you continued success.
The reason that I ask is because I have had my Satin (diagnosed with calcium deficiency by x-ray) on a blend of calcium citrate/calcium carbonate and the ratio of magnesium, zinc, potassium and Vit D that is recommended in "Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals," Fourth Revised Edition, 1995 which is posted on the Nutrition Links section of Guinea Lynx. She's doing remarkably well after 5 months of supplementation. I asked my vet about taking another set of x-rays and she agreed with me that since Sierra is doing so well and scurrying around that it's working so x-rays not necessary.
Theresa - ditto to your "fire!" I purchased my Sierra from an ACBA breeder. Sierra was my second Satin from the same breeder that has this problem. I notified him but he never responded. I don't know how anyone that loves these dear animals can ethically continue breeding them when there's a known genetic problem. I knew nothing of this disease with my first Satin and it was horrible. Absolutely horrible what the poor dear had to endure because me and my vet didn't know what was happening.
Becky, so pleased that your Elvis is doing so much better! I wish you continued success.
Any reason why the calcium lactate as opposed to other forms?
I know some people here (Lynx and Lisam?) did quite a bit of research on the form of calicum most absorbable, I believe. I'll let one of them answer this for you.
Lynx, Elvis is right around 930g. This dose is about half what Pinta was giving. My vet still thinks it's kind of high, but so far, so good. We'll take another x-ray in a couple of months. If the bones are continuing to get better, we'll stick with this dose. If they're about the same, I want to talk to him about increasing it.
I know some people here (Lynx and Lisam?) did quite a bit of research on the form of calicum most absorbable, I believe. I'll let one of them answer this for you.
Lynx, Elvis is right around 930g. This dose is about half what Pinta was giving. My vet still thinks it's kind of high, but so far, so good. We'll take another x-ray in a couple of months. If the bones are continuing to get better, we'll stick with this dose. If they're about the same, I want to talk to him about increasing it.
Kleenmama did some research into it I believe and Dr. Legendre confirmed it was best absorbed but qualified with an "I think".
Even if you're sure it's working it's still worth getting xrays since that's the only proof other vets will accept. Nips the "Calcium supplements don't work" argument in the bud when you have xray proof. I believe Shiraz was just an anomaly until Elvis's xrays?
Even if you're sure it's working it's still worth getting xrays since that's the only proof other vets will accept. Nips the "Calcium supplements don't work" argument in the bud when you have xray proof. I believe Shiraz was just an anomaly until Elvis's xrays?
Thank you. Yes, you are correct that for the benefit of others I should have a follow-up x-ray of Sierra taken. Since we are presently focusing on Rugi's kidney stone (urine tests about every two weeks) the vet costs are a little out of the ordinary! Nonetheless, I will plan to have a follow-up x-ray taken for the benefit of knowing.
Out of curiosity - my vet charges $90 for x-ray and it's been running $30 a time for urine test and all she does is spin it down -- doesn't send out for culture. Are these in line with what others pay?
Out of curiosity - my vet charges $90 for x-ray and it's been running $30 a time for urine test and all she does is spin it down -- doesn't send out for culture. Are these in line with what others pay?
ACK! Please disregard the dosing info. I must have been drunk at the time.
The capsules I use are 100mg. I mix 6 capsules with 36cc's of Odwalla SuperFood. To get the 75mg/kg dosage, he gets about 2cc's twice a day for a total of 4cc's daily.
Sorry for the confusion. (must...stop...drinking...)
I'll update again when we do a new x-ray in September.
The capsules I use are 100mg. I mix 6 capsules with 36cc's of Odwalla SuperFood. To get the 75mg/kg dosage, he gets about 2cc's twice a day for a total of 4cc's daily.
Sorry for the confusion. (must...stop...drinking...)
I'll update again when we do a new x-ray in September.
Lynx, if I shouldn't post my update on Sierra here, please move. However, since we were discussing Satins and the success of Ca supplementation, I thought I'd add Sierra's update here.
Well, I am depressed. My Satin, Sierra, was diagnosed with Ca deficiency in March 2005 at 2 years of age. I have since been supplementing Sierra with Calcium and visibly, her improvement was dramatic! She is back to scurrying around and I was sure that a subsequent x-ray would show her bones had filled in.
Well, we had a 6-month recheck today and her bones have not improved. The good news is that her bladder was clean of any signs of sludge or Ca build-up so that pleases me. Her spine looks good. It is just her pelvic area that is still moth-eaten. However, visibly you'd never know she had a problem as opposed to prior to the Ca supplementation.
I will look forward to Becky's update on Elvis. I hope the Ca supplemenation for Elvis shows better results.
Well, I am depressed. My Satin, Sierra, was diagnosed with Ca deficiency in March 2005 at 2 years of age. I have since been supplementing Sierra with Calcium and visibly, her improvement was dramatic! She is back to scurrying around and I was sure that a subsequent x-ray would show her bones had filled in.
Well, we had a 6-month recheck today and her bones have not improved. The good news is that her bladder was clean of any signs of sludge or Ca build-up so that pleases me. Her spine looks good. It is just her pelvic area that is still moth-eaten. However, visibly you'd never know she had a problem as opposed to prior to the Ca supplementation.
I will look forward to Becky's update on Elvis. I hope the Ca supplemenation for Elvis shows better results.
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