Satins and bone loss--Attn: Hollister families

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:57 pm


Thanks for the update. Perhaps what you've been able to do is control the deterioration even if you have not reversed it. Have you thought of upping the amount given? Looking into drugs for osteoporosis?

Good luck.

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MNCavy

Post   » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:05 pm


Lynx, thanks. You pose an good question and it's similar to the one asked by my vet. Because she is not an exotics specialist she relies heavily on what I'm able to gather from this remarkable forum.

I recall that for Elvis, Becky's vet was discussing the use of calcitonin but because of the initial success with Ca supplementation they've held off so far.

It doesn't sound like there is very much information out there so our Satins are truly "guinea pigs." Do you (or others) have any suggested hormones that we could consider?

Is there any vet that is experienced in this that I could refer my vet to?

Thanks.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:37 pm


Maybe you could write Becky and encourage her to update her info. Did she specify how many mg/day Ca she was giving her pig?

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MNCavy

Post   » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:49 pm


Yes, Becky posted above:
The capsules I use are 100mg. I mix 6 capsules with 36cc's of Odwalla SuperFood. To get the 75mg/kg dosage, he gets about 2cc's twice a day for a total of 4cc's daily.

I was dosing Sierra about 50 mg so will increase a little but my vet is also concerned about over-dosing Ca. Quite the balancing trick!

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Becky

Post   » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:28 pm


My vet also was worried about the calcium dose, but (knock wood) there haven't been any adverse effects. He knows that I understand the risks and respects my decision to use this dosage. Also, keep in mind, this is still half the dosage Pinta's pig was on, so I feel very comfortable about it.

I'll be taking him in in about a week, so I'll have more info then, but I must say, over the past month, he's been slowly and steadily putting on more weight, so I'm thinking good things.

Before trying the calcitonin, I'd up the dosage. Also, add sunlight--either the real stuff or a full-spectrum UV lamp--on a daily basis. My vet thinks this really might be the difference since they need Vit. D to properly process the calcium.

I also agree with Lynx. What you've been doing could very well have stopped her from getting to the point of being so fragile that she'll have a fracture. Don't give up yet!

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Laurie Graham

Post   » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:14 pm


Hello, Fellow Cavyslaves

My Fluffy is the presumed son of Elvis, and sister of Francine. When I found out from Francine's mom about what was going on with Elvis, I checked Fluffy, and he had lost a lot of weight. I had him xrayed 2 weeks ago, and he was diagnosed with scurvy, then with a metabolic disorder, which MBD is.

Today he had a recheck. His weight is up a bit. He will be starting Calcium Gluconate. This is calcium in solution, which obviates Becky's laborious concoction.

So here are the stats:
He is three years old, born after the Hollister rescue, on July 4th, 2002. I don't have a starting weight, but his high weight was 1166 gr on 4/20/03. He has mostly been in the 933-1025 range. On 8/14, he was 852. On 9/04, he was 727. Today he is 750.

I am floundering with getting enough food into him. He has been doing okay with soaked Cavy Cuisine, but is not interested in high-C foods like red peppers or broccoli. Dr. Mellior-Smith has suggested pulping them and syringe feeding, so I will try that, but he doesn't much care for syringe feeding or syringe anything.

I have printed out all the food charts and will try to figure out how much of what to give him. I am getting confused about the calcium/vitamin C thing. Can someone put it in a nutshell for me?

I read the article on MBD with great interest. The vet who wrote it says it's all due to poor nutrition. I wonder if the GP he saw was a satin.

My husband once said he thought it was great that our pets were rats and guinea pigs, because doctors know everything about them. Wrong - only about the lab variety.

So let's hear it for citizen science! Let's keep up the fight, procure the knowledge, and pass it on. And donate the bodies.

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Laurie Graham

Post   » Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:16 pm


Brother! Fluffy is Francine's brother! He's a boy! That's apparently part of the Hollister genetic thing.

Sorry about that.

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Becky

Post   » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:25 pm


Elvis also hates to be syringe fed. One thing I've done is put him in the bowl of the scale, since I weigh him daily anyway, and syringe while he's sitting there. He doesn't fight me a bit.

Laurie and I have corresponded about this and I was saying to her that one of the difficulties of hand feeding guys with this problem is you don't want them to struggle too much, since their bones are already fragile. So it's not just a matter of force feeding. Being careful with this is a big consideration.

And yes, everything you read says this is due to poor nutrician, but my vet knows how particular I am about nutrician, balancing Ca:Ph, etc., so with satins, that does not seem to be the case.

Laurie, what is the dosage for the calcium gluconate?

I'm taking Elvis in on Saturday for an x-ray and will tell him about Fluffy. Good luck keeping him fed and his weight up. I think you'll be surprised at how the calcium will help bring up and maintain his weight.

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Becky

Post   » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:31 pm


Oh, and as far as diet is concerned, give him a base of greens that include endive, escarole and green leaf lettuce. Then add any of these either together in small amounts or on a rotating basis: parsley, chard, dandelion greens, cilantro and dill.

At one meal a day add a small portion of vegetables. I like to rotate cherry tomato, red pepper, carrot, cucumber for veggies and kiwi, apple, pear, navel orange, blueberries, melon or whatever fruit is in season. Fruit in very small portions. Just an 1/8th of an apple, pear or orange, a small wedge of melon with most of the pulp removed, etc.

When blueberries aren't too outrageous, I'll throw a small handful in the mix since they're just all-around good.

Follow this and you really won't have to worry about Vit. C.

Also, look into getting a UV lamp. I clamp it to the grid and turn it on in the evenings while they eat.

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Becky

Post   » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:01 pm


Took Elvis to the vets this am for his x-ray and his bones are nearly back to normal.

He now wants me to cut down on the calcium supplementing to three days a week or every other day. If we overload him with calcium it can start taxing his kidneys.

Also, there was absolutely no sign of sludge, stones or anything else in his bladder. Big *whew* on that one.

Laurie, your vet already had contacted my vet. They're going to keep in contact, from what I understand, and my vet said he was going to post on VIN. He also told me he had a pig on gluconate that didn't do well at all.

So, I'm going to reduce the calcium and keep an eye on his weight, which has continued to steadily rise. If he starts dropping again, I'll get another x-ray and see about upping the dose again.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:08 pm


Thanks for the update, Becky. Great news.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:09 pm


That's great news Becky.

The more and more I look at Frizzle, I think she is a satin teddy rather than just 'teddy'. Her bladder is still sludgey with 4+ calcium carbonate. Subques have helped a lot and I hardly hear her squeal anymore but I'm still torn about supplementing with calcium. Her last xray was about 6 months ago. Her ribs look very aged. She doesn't seem to hurt when picked up and she isn't losing weight.

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