Hermes - boar bite

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:51 pm


Just noticed my boar Hermes has a wound in a particularly sensitive spot - his testicles. I don't think it happened tonight, not sure when it happened. There was a tiny spot of blood in the cozy cuddle yesterday and a larger spot of blood in the cage the other day. Hermes & Rocky both have cut noses, and Hermes had a bite mark on his back/rump, so I attributed the blood to that. I also thought it might be Rocky peeing blood again, but after watching him pee decided it wasn't that. Apparently I didn't look close enough for wounds.

The wound is healing and doesn't look inflamed or overly irritated. I washed the area with warm water. If it seems to be healing on its own should he still see a vet?

Lately Hermes has been a real pain in the . . . well, anyway. He's been humping his cagemate Rocky and rumblestrutting. Rocky used to be able to do the nose up thing and Hermes would back down. So I guess somewhere in the humping Rocky turned and bit Hermes. Not that this injury has slowed Hermes down or made him more calm. I didn't want to separate them because Hermes is miserable on his own, he can't live with his brother Apollo, and Graham is such a little scared thing I think he'd be miserable living with Hermes. When he's not fighting or trying to hump Rocky, they can lie next to each other all cuddly looking. They've been a good match until lately.

Hermes & Apollo are about 10 months old. When does puberty end? Please tell me it will be soon.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:07 am


I would check it at least daily. Consider a dilute antiseptic wash to keep it cleaner.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:30 pm


Thanks Lynx. I was thinking about that last night after I put him to bed. By the way, I have pictures if anyone wants to see.

And I'm thinking it may be time to separate Hermes & Rocky. At least for a couple weeks until his wounds heal. I would love it if Hermes and his brother Apollo could suddenly get along again. Then I could put Graham with Rocky which may work out well.

pinta

Post   » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:50 pm


If you separate for a couple of weeks you'll only screw up the hierarchy they are working out. Chances are after there's a battle that results in an "ouch", hierarchy will be established for a while until some pig wants to move up the ladder and has forgotten that pain factor of the "ouch".

It doesn't sound like there is any dislike going on, just boars being boars.

You could try giving them a bath at the same time. Sometimes that will bond them in mutual hatred of you.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:44 pm


But the "ouch" never stopped the humping and the fighting. It doesn't seem that they've established a hierarchy yet and they've been going at it for 2-3 weeks. And everyday brings a new wound for one or the other or both. I know I need to let them work things out which is why I resisted separating them before. But they're both dominant and maybe I need to try to match them with my more submissive boars. Or maybe I need to toss all 4 in the tub and see what happens.

They're separated for now. And Graham and Apollo are separated tonight too since Graham is recovering from a tooth trim. Rocky is quite content by himself. Graham is still a little out of it from the anesthesia or pain meds. The two brothers are annoyed.

Hermes' wound looks ok. I mentioned it to the Dr. when Graham was there for his teeth and he gave me ABs as a precaution. Dr. also said that if the wound becomes infected to get Hermes in to see them since he might need to be castrated (that word sounds so much worse than "neutered").

pinta

Post   » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:30 am


Small wounds won't stop them. It's the big "Whoa that one hurt" that makes them admit defeat.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:30 pm


Same pig, new injury, new living situation. (sorry this is a bit long and rambly.)

Hermes (1 yr old intact male) got bit last night on his right front foot pad and ankle. There's a small wound on the outside of his ankle/wrist, and then another (slightly larger) wound in the middle of his foot pad. Looks like some piggy got top teeth into his ankle and bottom teeth into his foot pad.

I've been cleaning it with diluted poividine iodine solution. We tried bandaging it, but couldn't configure anything to stay on his foot for longer than 5 minutes. And of course no stores were open last night or today so we could go get something that would work better. I read in the Care Guide and some other threads that liquid bandages have been used for pigs with pododermatitis. Would that be ok to use for a bite wound on the foot? Or is there a clear picture of how to bandage a foot somewhere? Of course silly me didn't even remember until just now that I still have silverdine cream (antibiotic) leftover from Hermes' last skirmish (in Oct.) I'll put that on tonight and hope some stays on enough to help. And I'll go shopping tomorrow morning for better supplies. He's on towels already and we're now changing them twice a day.

I'm not certain how this happened, but I have a hunch. He's been living with Graham for almost a week in half of a 2x7 C&C cage. The cage has a cube divider wall with Rocky & Apollo in the other side. My hunch is that Hermes' roommate Graham didn't bite him, but that Rocky or Apollo bit Hermes' foot when he had it up on the divider wall. I didn't see the incident, just found him shortly after it happened (there had been a commotion and I walked in to see Hermes chasing Graham around the cage). Graham is the sweetest, most laid-back, timid piggy ever. But Rocky & Apollo have been arguing with Hermes through the grids for a while now.

I seperated him from Rocky back in Sept., then did a buddy bath and tried to re-intro him to his brother Apollo. That was disasterous and ended with bad bite wounds for both boys. So Hermes was by himself for a couple of months. I finally introduced him to Graham last week and aside from lots and lots and lots of humping (Hermes to Graham), and a couple very minor nips, they're doing ok. Graham has been a bit shellshocked by the experience (I don't think Graham is accustomed to other pigs). But slowly Hermes is calming down and harrassing Graham less. So Graham and Hermes are still together in half of the cage. My husband added another layer of divider wall so there's now a No Pig's Land of a couple of inches between the two sides.

Don't you just hate to find blood splattered throughout your piggy's cage? Hermes was running around the cage after this happened so there was literally blood everywhere.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Dec 25, 2005 9:59 pm


Your poor guy!

Bite wounds can be pretty serious. One of Pinta's pigs with a heart condition got a bite that got quite infected and required an amputation. This pig had poor blood circulation. Think of the recent threads in the General chat forum on cat bites and the antibiotics humans require. I think it possible that the blood circulation in the foot is not as good, perhaps requiring a vet visit and close care.

Pinta's guinea pig needed two different antibiotics for the infection. By the time the culture got back, there wasn't enough time to knock it out.

You're early in the game and can watch what's going on. If it is a deep puncture, it might need flushing and treatment like it was an abscess (a vet could tell you how best to treat it -- I might be wrong). I do think antibiotics would help prevent an infection from developing.

Good luck with your guy.

The supplies page has a short discussion of bandaging. I would soak in an antiseptic solution a couple times a day, put gauze on and wrap lightly with Vetwrap.

www.guinealynx.info/supplies.html

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charandmin

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:42 am


Ughh - not again. Hopefully after this one heals it will be the last.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:12 am


After soaking and cleaning his foot last night, I tried to get a better look at the injury using a mirror (easier than turning the pig upside down). The wound doesn't seem too deep. It's looking ok, not red or swollen or anything (knocks wood). It's right in the spot where there's a natural divot or groove in the foot pad. (I'm not sure I'm this explaining well.) I think it seemed deeper at first because of the way the foot is.

The worst part is we're leaving town tomorrow for a few days. The pigs are going with us (we were planning for that already), so I've copied vet recommendations for the general area where we're going in case we need them. Our normal vet clinic is closed until after the New Year anyway, but the emergency hospital is open, I think. I have a big bottle of sterile saline left from the last round of infected bite wounds, so I could try flushing it.

At least he's a good patient and usually sits still for treatment. Otherwise he's a complete brat and an instigator.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:29 am


I would soak the foot daily with an antiseptic solution and try to flush some. Better than a sterile saline solution.

http://www.guinealynx.info/antiseptic_solutions.html

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:41 am


We do have povidone iodine and that's what I've been using so far. A tech at the vet's had mentioned before that they didn't want me to use the iodine solution more than once a day because it's too drying. That's why they gave us the sterile saline for flushing. But on the supplies page you mention it being less drying (than the chlorhex, I'm assuming). And it sounds like others here have used it long-term without problems?

Thanks for the supplies link, Lynx. I read over those pages Sat. night. We don't have vet wrap, but we did have a product meant for humans that I thought was similar - sticks to itself not the skin. But that didn't work well for wrapping Hermes' foot. Maybe it was too stretchy or not sticky enough. After 3 attempts and 3 different wrapping methods we gave up.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:45 am


Chlorhex is drying. It was my understanding that povidone iodine is less drying (this is from Vicki of JPGPR). It took me a while to work out a method of protecting the foot.

It might also work to soak, dry the foot thoroughly, and apply a small amount of a triple antibiotic ointment as that might seal up the puncture from dirt entry.

I'd also bed on towels.

pinta

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:07 pm


Wrapping in a figure 8 usually works well: wrap bandage(or gauze) a couple of times around end of foot, Cross over front of ankle, wrap around back of ankle and cross back over front of ankle returning to base of foot. Repeat figure 8 if necessary.

Repeat with trimmed strip of vetwrap. Place tape around the top of ankle making sure you contact the hair and skin as well as the vetwrap. This guarantees the bandage stays on. There will be hair loss when the bandage is changed(and a pissed pig) but it's a small price to pay to prevent infection from contamination.

Place piece of waterproof bandage tape on base of foot. I put two strips on going slightly up the sides, and cut small slits in the ends so I can taper them over the toe tips. This is to protect the bandage from poops and pee on the ground. Check bandage every few hours to make sure it's still dry.

My bandages stay on my pigs' feet.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:52 pm


Pinta - thanks for that detailed explanation. We'll try the figure 8 this evening.

I think I'm pretty well stocked-up for bandaging now. Today I went out and bought vet wrap, gauze pads, non-stick gauze pads, Qtips, cotton pads (for cleaning), and liquid bandage. I don't want to use the liquid bandage though, because I'm afraid if I haven't cleaned the wound enough then I'll just be sealing bacteria into the wound. There's one scab or dried blood that's been tough to get off. I'll keep working at it.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:27 pm


Now Hermes has what appears to be bumblefoot on both his back feet. The feet have bright pink/red spots and are just a little bit scabbed. They're not swollen or oozing anything. Don't seem sensitive to touch. It's like he wore new shoes and got hot spots or blisters.

I've been washing his feet with diluted povidone iodine solution and tried soaking his feet yesterday. But how should I soak his feet? Is soaking both back feet at the same time recommended? What does that do to his genitals to be soaking in an antiseptic solution?

I think this came about from Hermes hiding in one corner of the cage for hours at a time. We've since taken away his hidey spot, which feels a bit mean but we need to force this pig to move more. We also leave more of the cage covered during the day so he feels less need to just hide in one spot.

Hermes lives alone. After Graham and Rocky died we tried to pair Hermes with his brother Apollo again. That resulted in nasty bloody wounds to both of them. We've decided that Hermes just can't be trusted to live with anyone. So he sits in the corner of his loney little cage and gets sores on his feet. He spends floortime everyday running up and down the divider wall yelling at the other pigs. Gets plenty of exercise while he's on the floor. I just wish he moved more in the cage.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:37 pm


Check Nina's pic:
http://www.guinealynx.info/antiseptic_solutions.html

Maybe you could use a small bowl? Hard to do both at one time. You could soak with a dilute salt solution which might be fine for his genitals.

I would do this, thoroughly dry them off, wrap with gauze and bandage. See the bandaging page for more info.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:43 pm


Thanks, Lynx. I had looked at that page earlier tonight and remembered Nina's pic. I used a plastic Tupperware-type container that was just big enough to fit Hermes' back half. I could probably use the same container and just stick one foot in at a time. His left foot is more scabbed than his right.

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Brimstone
For Rocky

Post   » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:34 pm


The good news is I haven't had to update this thread in almost 5 years. The further good news is that as of sometime this month Hermes is 7 years old.

The bad news is that he's had a few health problems in the past few months. Most troublesome is a fractured lower incisor. It's cracked all the way down to the gumline and we can wiggle the splintered piece. The vets Dremeled his teeth even a few weeks ago in hopes of helping him eat (his molars are fine) and letting his tooth grow out unfractured. No luck. His lower incisors are now jagged and at an angle:
Image
Image

The crack extends to the gumline, which looks a bit swollen:
Image

He's been on tramadol for pain and he's been eating better and looking more perky. Spouse talked to the vet on the phone the other day and the vet said if the splintered piece is loose and doesn't seem to be causing Hermes pain we could try to pull it out. We tried that tonight but he cried out so I think pulling on it hurts. The wiggling didn't seem to bother him though.

I'm going to email these pics to the vet. We need to at least get more pain killers for him. He's still eating, so that's good. Given his age I'm thinking of him a palliative patient at this point and focusing on meds and procedures that will keep him comfortable and give him quality of life. I'm very hesitant to put him under and have the whole tooth extracted.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:19 pm


It may be growing in split rather than cracked (not easy to explain but the two look wider together than the one that is okay). But I do hope it starts growing in okay.

Your pics are great. Let me know if you'd like them permanently added.

I would do minor corrections and level them. Then watch closely and see if he is able to close his mouth evenly. What I wonder is if something is wrong/muscles week/ on one side. Maybe the chin sling might help him?

gl/malocclusion.html

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