Ongoing bladder problems-advice?

Supporter in '13

Post   » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:22 am

Yeast? In whom? Peppi or Chester?

I'm getting worried and frustrated! My husband talked to the vet today and he is pushing the Baytril. He wants us to switch back. I hate to switch drugs around, and we only switched without asking in the first place because the office was closed and we felt we were doing what was best for our pig based on his behavior and poop. It seems like the Bactrim is better on his stomach because the poops are totally normal now, but today there was blood in his urine. Again. So obviously neither medication is knocking out the infection. I think we'll be taking him back in for an x-ray and subcues. My husband didn't push for an x-ray the first time because of the urinalysis results, and we've had 2 or 3 x-rays done on Chester in the past when he has sludge and there have never been any signs of a stone. I guess there's always a first time.

So I need advice. What would you do? Switch back to the vet's drug of choice or go with my gut based on my knowledge of my pig? I hate to give him something other than what was recommended by our vet, but I have noticed that Baytril seems to be the first thing mentioned at this clinic. Thanks again for everyone's help. I really appreciate it.


Post   » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:28 am

Cipro's good for UTIs I think. If he can't tolerate Baytril, he shouldn't be on it.

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Post   » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:45 am

capybara, about the vet school, I must have misunderstood Linda. She works in a specialized department, and maybe only certain departments are referral only.

pinta, the vet is the same one who dug in and refused to switch from Baytril, which wasn't working for Maxi at all, to chlor. He finally told me chlor was illegal in the U.S. and could kill you just from touching it. He's just weird about meds, and hates to give anything but Baytril--even to my two pregnant sows with bumblefoot.

capybara, as much as I adore Dr. E, I have come to believe over the last year that he has a blind spot when it comes to certain meds. I feel really arrogant saying that considering his education and experience, and feel somewhat disloyal because he's been so good to us, but it's what I believe. You might consider getting a second opinion from the Verona? vet clinic. I did that with Dr. Chris Voss and really liked him. The other thing I like about that clinic is they can do dental x-rays and I am almost sure they have dental vets too. Do a search on Chris Voss vet clinic and I think you'll get Verona. They were also reasonable in cost.

Supporter in '13

Post   » Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:04 pm

ladyveg, I have been starting to notice the reliance on Baytril, too.

I've seen Dr. Voss before. He was the vet that was scheduled to do surgery to remove Peppi's phantom bladder stone. I really like him, too. He was very nice, and because it was so weird that the stone "disappeared" he did a FREE ultrasound to make sure there was nothing there!

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Post   » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:34 pm

Did they actually culture the urine? That takes a day or so. Or did they just assume it was a UTI?

Supporter in '13

Post   » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:58 pm

No, unfortunately they didn't. My husband took him in and I didn't remind him to be really persistent about it. According to the vet the urinalysis showed "signs of infection" and he wanted to go ahead and prescribe antibiotics. I know that was a bad move. We took Chester to another vet today and got an x-ray. No stone. We may be taking him into the vet school for a full check up sometime soon, to see if they're more open to different ideas of how to attack the problem. According to this vet, the exotics department usually does not require referrals.

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Post   » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:03 pm

Chances are, he has an inflammed bladder. A good vet can detect this by palpating the bladder.

I'd certainly get a culture done after he's off the AB's for a while. It's the only way to know for sure what kind of drug to use, or if, indeed, there's an infection.

And as far as the yeast is concerned, my sludge pig has had an overgrowth twice (confirmed) and maybe another time. Her poops were very green, very soft and had a pitted look to them. Your description reminded me of those times.

Supporter in '13

Post   » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:51 pm

It's been months since I've updated--house hunting has taken up so much of our time--but I thought I'd write one anyway in the hopes it may help others who are currently dealing with this. I also have a question or two below, for anyone who has the answers but may not have the time to read!

I'll try to keep it short--

We were able to get Chester in at the UW clinic on Nov. 23rd. I was impressed with the knowledge of the vet we saw, and he was willing to try many things. He took x-rays, and did an ultrasound. No stones were detected. I can't seem to find the report right now, but he was either diagnosed with chronic inflammation of the blader or bladder cystitis (same thing or no?). A week of sub-cues was ordered, along with any metacam for pain. We continued the Bactrim we had him on already. A culture was to be taken in a few weeks after we ran the course of the AB.

Follow up appointment was Dec 13th for a culture. I was not as impressed with the service this time. It might have been a fluke--maybe they were really busy or we got stuck with more inexperienced students that day--but they tried and failed twice to get a sample. This was even after giving Chester 2 subcues to try to encourage him to produce more urine. After leaving him with the vet most of the day for this, we finally left with Chester who had a pretty ugly bruise above his privates. We'd had cultures done on one of our other pigs before, and I hadn't seen a bruise like this, so we decided not to stress him out further and keep an eye on him.

On a positive note, we have only noticed blood in his urine once since December. Earlier he was having it almost on a weekly basis. When it has happened, he seems to only pass some blood once or twice accompanied by grit, so we're pretty certain it's sludge and not infections.

We were happy that the UW vet was open to trying Polycitra, and he's been getting 0.05 ml every 12 hours daily for the past couple of weeks. I'm not sure if this is the only reason the bloody urine is decreasing, but I really hope so. We haven't been giving sub-cues recently, but would like to start giving it once a week (as soon as we get more butterfly needles) to ward off any sludge buildup.

My questions (finally)--Is 0.05 ml a good sized dose? Do we need to keep it in the fridge at all? We've just been storing it out of sunlight at room temp. We also continue to syringe Chester 4-5 ccs of water througout the day.

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Post   » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:07 pm

I see I don't have a dose for Polycitra on the stones page. Guess I don't know. I would search Becky's posts.

I'm encouraged to hear things are looking better. I hope this regimen can keep him from being in pain and bleeding.

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Post   » Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:48 pm

That's a really small dose. Chippy was getting 0.15 in the morning and again in the evening. Actually, the dosage was 0.15 four times a day, so I could have gone higher, but I just kept it at 0.15 twice a day. Others who used it had slightly higher doses -- around 0.2. This was for a pig around 1000grams.

I kept it in the fridge because for humans, it has a pretty nasty taste and cooling it made it taste better. I have no idea if it would taste bad to the pigs, but I kept it there anyway. You don't need to, though. Mine came in an amber bottle, but there wasn't anything about keeping it out of sunlight, so that's likely OK, too.

Have you been either mixing the polycitra with extra water or syringing extra water with the polycitra? I would do that, as well. It can be harsh on their throat.

Chronic inflammation of the bladder and chronic cystitis are the same thing.

Personally, I'd keep up the subcues at least weekly until you see a substantial decrease of grit.

No metacam suggested or given? What worked well for us was a week on it, then as needed when she exhibits pain. It could help with the inflammation and discomfort.

Supporter in '13

Post   » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:48 am

I thought 0.05 seemed like a really small dose, too. It's only a couple drops. Is there any standard dosing info out there for Polycitra? Chester weighs about 950 grams. Do you think we could up the dose to at least 0.1 cc 2 X daily and see what happens?

Also, yes, we have been syringing some water along with the dose. Usually a 1 CC syringe immediately after the Polycitra, sometimes more if we can get him to take it. He did seem to really hate the taste of the Polycitra, but I think he's getting more used to it now. I'll try putting it in the fridge though, and see if it makes a difference. I didn't know it could be harsh on their throats, but I had remembered reading somewhere on GL that it was good to give extra water with it.

We had been giving metacam daily when it was really bad. Lately we've just given it when he's shown signs of pain while peeing. Do you think that's sufficient, or should we try it more often?

We also plan to re-start the weekly subcues as soon as we can get more butterfly needles. It's a real fight with him to do it, but hopefully it will help him in the long run.

Thanks for your input, Becky!


Post   » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:03 pm

My pig gets .5 cc 2x a day and he weights about 1050-1100 grams. Does this seem like too much?

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