Since you really don't want to mess too much with the urine itself (no polycitra!), I'd strongly recommend doing subcues at least three times a week. That, more than anything else, might be the best treatment.
Other suggestions--if he isn't too active, the sludge tends to settle in the bladder and this irritates the bladder, leading to more inflammation, more sludge, etc. It's a cycle. My vet suggested using a small vibrator daily to keep the sludge moving.
Pain management, as GP said.
One more element I've been discussing with my vet is daily full spectrum lighting as a means of helping to process the calcium?
*URGENT* Passing blood...squeaking
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Sef
- I dissent.
I'm not seeing any sludge. I've been monitoring, but nothing so far. The whole thing started out on Christmas Eve as peeing blood and squeaking when defecating. He's still squeaking when he defecates, but only on occasion. No crying when he pees. I might try the herb...the Metacam seemed to help, but I certainly don't want to use long-term.
I'm confused by what the vet said, about there being both struvite and calcium oxalates in Zachary's urine. From what I've read, it's not uncommon to find struvites in low levels. When I asked how much we were talking on both types of crystals, she said +1.
pH of the urine is 8. Is that considered within normal range? I know it's usually closer to 9.
The vet's recommendation is to do nothing at this point...monitor, and return in a month for another set of xrays and urinalysis. I'd like for her to do via cystocentisis (sp?), since we seem to have trouble getting a decent-sized sample, but she didn't seem too comfortable with that.
I wish I had a little more confidence in this new vet. The episode with the Metacam dosing has made me a little concerned about her expertise...
Crap. I hate it when a good exotics vet retires.
I'm confused by what the vet said, about there being both struvite and calcium oxalates in Zachary's urine. From what I've read, it's not uncommon to find struvites in low levels. When I asked how much we were talking on both types of crystals, she said +1.
pH of the urine is 8. Is that considered within normal range? I know it's usually closer to 9.
The vet's recommendation is to do nothing at this point...monitor, and return in a month for another set of xrays and urinalysis. I'd like for her to do via cystocentisis (sp?), since we seem to have trouble getting a decent-sized sample, but she didn't seem too comfortable with that.
I wish I had a little more confidence in this new vet. The episode with the Metacam dosing has made me a little concerned about her expertise...
Crap. I hate it when a good exotics vet retires.
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Sef
- I dissent.
I have been searching here and on the web this weekend, and can't really find any information about incidences of having both struvite and calcium oxalate crystals in the urine at the same time. Since one favors alkaline and the other acidic conditions, how in the heck can there be both? Does anyone here have any experience with this type of situation?
I was also reading that refrigeration and storage of urine samples *can* cause crystals to form. I'm wondering if that's the case here...that one type is present and causing the trouble, but the storage process involved in getting the sample sent out to the lab in Indianapolis might account for the other?
Zachary is squeaking again when defecating (but not when urinating), and it's getting more frequent so I put him back on the Metacam. Since the current vet is adopting a ho-hum "let's wait and see" approach, I'm opting for a second opinion from a vet down around Corydon who is supposedly good with rabbits.
I was also reading that refrigeration and storage of urine samples *can* cause crystals to form. I'm wondering if that's the case here...that one type is present and causing the trouble, but the storage process involved in getting the sample sent out to the lab in Indianapolis might account for the other?
Zachary is squeaking again when defecating (but not when urinating), and it's getting more frequent so I put him back on the Metacam. Since the current vet is adopting a ho-hum "let's wait and see" approach, I'm opting for a second opinion from a vet down around Corydon who is supposedly good with rabbits.
Just read through this thread. You must be so frustrated.
You always thought it was poop rlated, right from the start. Yet no-one can offer a difinitive diagnosis.
I feel so sorry for yor piggie. it must be awful to feel pain each time he poops.
For what its worth, I would definitely be seeking another professional vetinary opinion.
You always thought it was poop rlated, right from the start. Yet no-one can offer a difinitive diagnosis.
I feel so sorry for yor piggie. it must be awful to feel pain each time he poops.
For what its worth, I would definitely be seeking another professional vetinary opinion.
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Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
So you've had the same squeeking since before the xrays and after? I would not focus too much on crystals in the urine. I would think this would be a common finding.
I think your plan to continue with the metacalm is a good idea. I would treat it like stones/ interstitial cystitis and focus closely on diet, more fluids, perhaps the herbs you were talking about. I understand why the vet is kind of at a loss if he can't find any stones and would suggest monitoring.
Becky has had good luck giving subcues to increase fluids. Sounds like there's no infection present so you're not giving antibiotics.
I don't feel like I'm being very helpful. I understand how hard it is to have your boar be in pain.
I think your plan to continue with the metacalm is a good idea. I would treat it like stones/ interstitial cystitis and focus closely on diet, more fluids, perhaps the herbs you were talking about. I understand why the vet is kind of at a loss if he can't find any stones and would suggest monitoring.
Becky has had good luck giving subcues to increase fluids. Sounds like there's no infection present so you're not giving antibiotics.
I don't feel like I'm being very helpful. I understand how hard it is to have your boar be in pain.
I'm certainly no chemist or expert, but I really did wonder about having both oxalate and struvite crystals in the urine. I have no idea if it's possible, but as you said earlier, they form in different environments--struvite in alkaline, oxalate/carbonate in acid. I don't see the urine being both, so I'm at a loss as to how both could show up.
If there were crystals present, it's probably sludge. Again, increase the fluids. Balanace the diet if you haven't done so yet.
If there were crystals present, it's probably sludge. Again, increase the fluids. Balanace the diet if you haven't done so yet.
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Sef
- I dissent.
Correct, Lynx -- squeaking before and after the xrays. The squeaking is what first alerted me to a problem on Christmas Eve...I then found blood on the towels underneath his fleece. Started him on Bactrim that day, and by the time I was able to get him to the vet (the following Tuesday), the blood was only showing up as trace.
He was on Bactrim for a total of 3 weeks.
At this point, I think I'm inclined to discount the crystal findings for now. I asked the vet if it was possible that struvites in low levels would be common in alkaline urine, and she finally said, "Well, it's possible." Then after reading that crystals are not uncommon in urine samples that have been refrigerated/stored for more than 60 minutes prior to testing (source: http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/client ... n06_01.htm ), and knowing that the sample was refrigerated by the vet prior to transport to the lab, it seems to me that the results are questionable at best. Particularly when it shows the unlikely presence of both types of crystal.
Agree with suggestions here to increase fluids, manage pain and adjust diet while monitoring.
Thanks again; I greatly appreciate the feedback.
He was on Bactrim for a total of 3 weeks.
At this point, I think I'm inclined to discount the crystal findings for now. I asked the vet if it was possible that struvites in low levels would be common in alkaline urine, and she finally said, "Well, it's possible." Then after reading that crystals are not uncommon in urine samples that have been refrigerated/stored for more than 60 minutes prior to testing (source: http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/client ... n06_01.htm ), and knowing that the sample was refrigerated by the vet prior to transport to the lab, it seems to me that the results are questionable at best. Particularly when it shows the unlikely presence of both types of crystal.
Agree with suggestions here to increase fluids, manage pain and adjust diet while monitoring.
Thanks again; I greatly appreciate the feedback.
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