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2/18/2003, 11:37 pm
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




A shelter volunteer called me today. There are 5 young pigs in an LA shelter who are about to be euthanized because they have ringworm (shelter vet tech confirmed).

The pigs came in all together, 2 adult boars, 3 juvenile sows.

The volunteer wants to foster the 3 females and is willing to treat them (I am giving her supplies). She is trying to convince the shelter to treat the boars if I provide the medication.

So, I have 3 questions:

1) Will Malaseb bath and miconazole cream treat this sufficiently?

2) Can the females, if pregnant, be treated with these products?

3) I have been told that ringworm can be airborne. If the shelter decides to treat the boars, will they infect the rabbits in the kennels with them even if there is no contact?

Many thanks for any replies.
2/19/2003, 12:03 am
Paravati   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Paravati
Cavy Love Forever!


I GAVE, dammit!

From what I know:

1) Yes, but I have heard from several people that Program is more effective.

2) I believe you can treat pregnant females (But PLEASE don't take that for granted since I don't know from personal experience)

3) You should quarantine the ringworm animals in a separate room as far away as possible and always wash your hands thoroughly between handling animals. Wear an apron that you can shed at the door if you're holding them, too.
2/19/2003, 2:21 am
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




Ok, I can get Program--isn't the dosage info. on here somewhere?

Does anyone know if it is safe for guinea pregs?

The shelter will not quarantine. If it can't be treated in the kennels, they won't treat it.
2/19/2003, 2:23 am
Paravati   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Paravati
Cavy Love Forever!


I GAVE, dammit!

Chary, I am going to forward this link to Foster with an information request on Program and treating for ringworm. She's dealt with it before on several occasions. I know she'll have some information for you.
2/19/2003, 2:45 am
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




Many thanks, Para. Time is running out for these pigs.
2/19/2003, 4:47 am
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




Still researching whether or not pregnant sows can be treated with topical fungicides, but I was wondering...

What does everyone think of P. Gurney's essential oil treatment for fungal infections? The shelter volunteer who is taking the pigs mentioned this to me and asked if it would be an option.

Any thoughts? Here is the link:

http://www.oginet.com/pgurney/skinp.htm
2/19/2003, 7:23 am
Foster   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Foster





Hi Charybdis,

I treat Ringworm with Program (Lufenuron) and have had great success. Ringworm is still the most frustrating thing I treat and can take a month or two to clear up.

I get the cat dose for cats 11-20 pounds which is 270mg. I use one whole dose to treat an avarage adult pig. It's not an exact amount but it works and I haven't had any problems, even in pregnant sows. It needs to be mixed with something fatty to be absorbed properly. I use STAT which is a liquid diet probably like Critical Care that Oxbow makes. I get the STAT from the Vet. After mixing the program with the STAT I draw it up in a large syringe and feed it orally. They don't seem to mind the taste at all.

To jump start the healing I usually bathe the pigs with ChlorhexaDerm shampoo and dip them in LymDyp (stinky sulfer dip). Both have anti-fungal properties and the shampoo is soothing. LymDyp will even cure lice too.

If after four weeks there is any evidence of Ringworm remaining I treat again but usually it is gone.

I hope this helps, let me know if I can help in any way!

Janet
2/19/2003, 9:51 am
melcvt00   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
melcvt00
The Woman




I'm not sure if I would use the Program on pregnant pigs. I'll try to remember to look at the Program we have at the clinic to see what it says about pregnant dogs and cats.

Bathing is only topical, so it wouldn't harm the pregnant pigs. The stress would be the only issue.

As for the oil, I don't think I'd go for it. After reading the article, the first oil mentioned was used to kill mites/lice. The second sounded more like a yeast infection on the skin, not a ringworm infection. If they were my pigs, I'd be more likely to use the Programs and the Malaseb. Like Foster said, though, it can take a good 2 months to get rid of it. And as far as I know, ringworm is not airborne...contact is required for transmission. So, anyone handling those pigs need to wear gloves/long sleeves. If they are bedded on towels, the towels can be washed, but in HOT water only. Definitely strict quarantine rules should apply.
2/19/2003, 12:08 pm
Josephine   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain


Little Jo Wheek

Program is fine on pregnant animals, but I wouldn't use the high dose Foster suggests. My formulary states lufenuron (Program) can be safe for pregnant or lactating females. The lufenuron is found in the milk, but no adverse effects were seen at 10 times the recommended dose. It is safe for all mammals that we know of, due to the mechanism used is not found in mammals, but arthropods (like fleas) and other certain microbes (like ringworm).

The dosage for cavies is usually based on the feline dose of 13.6 mg/lb every 30 days, but that is a minimum. The average kg pig needs about 30 mg minimum. I have been told to give a kg pig a 45 mg tablet or 1/2 a 90 mg tablet. It does need to be given with some sort of higher-fat food, such as a liquid replacement diet, or if worse comes to worse (only in this situation, since it is not formulated for herbivores), Nutri-cal.

I would also recommend doing at least one bath with the Malaseb (depending on how pregnant the sows and how much stress it will be), since it reduces human exposure on the surface. I don't think the oils do any good other than moisturize the skin and I think it can do more damage if the oils are injested (esp. with normal cavy grooming).

Yes, of course, I second the recommendations for quarantine and strict washing/decontamination when treating the pigs. It is zoonotic and quite contagious, although it is through direct contact.
2/19/2003, 1:35 pm
Foster   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Foster





Wow Josephine, that is a smaller dose than I use! All I can tell you is what has worked for me. I once tried splitting my 270mg dose between two smaller pigs (they weighed 600g each) and didn't get the usual result and had to re-treat them. I was sure it was because the dose wasn't high enough because when I upped the dosage the second time it worked very well.

Have you had one dose cures on that dosage or do you have to treat over several months?
2/19/2003, 2:56 pm
Josephine   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain


Little Jo Wheek

Foster, if you have some new literature, I would love to see it. Quite frankly, I have only had one or two animals with not very severe cases on that dosage. Two months (two dosages) seemed to be the course. Of course, your dosage is considered safe in the up to 10 times normal dosage category.
2/19/2003, 3:37 pm
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




The vet does not have STAT, but I have some Critical Care. Will that do or is STAT preferable? Any other substitutes?

Also, how much of the liquid replacement diet should be mixed with the program?

And one more thing--how many doses and how often?
2/19/2003, 4:04 pm
Foster   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Foster





I just pulled up the fat content of Critical Care and I don't think it is high enough. I have even used about two teaspoons of corn oil when I was out of STAT and it was fine, just didn't mix with the Program as well. I'm sure someone else on here will know of a suitable replacement though. I would ask the Vet what else would be fatty like STAT. It is 45% fat.

I give one dose. If after four weeks all signs of Ringworm are NOT gone I repeat the one dose again. I haven't ever had to give more than two monthly doses.
2/19/2003, 4:57 pm
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




No vets around here seem to have a clue. Mine is out of town. I can't find STAT or anything like it online, either.

I have flax oil, which has 11g of fat per tbsp. How about Missing Link?
2/19/2003, 5:06 pm
Josephine   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain


Little Jo Wheek

Yeah, use the Flax oil. Great idea. It's vegetarian, too.

Missing link is good, but I think it's lower in fat.
2/19/2003, 5:58 pm
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




Any idea how much flax oil they should get?
2/19/2003, 6:11 pm
Josephine   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain


Little Jo Wheek

Just 1 cc should be more than enough
2/19/2003, 9:02 pm
Charybdis   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Charybdis
Pig Whisperer




Great, thanks. The volunteer should be picking up the pigs at the shelter on Friday.
2/20/2003, 12:55 pm
charandmin   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
charandmin





Maybe it's the scientist in me, but I'm just wondering how a oral treatment for fleas can be effective against a fungus?

I had a roomate the caught ringworm in college and she used a skin cream to get rid of it.
2/20/2003, 3:45 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




Supposedly it is a chitin inhibitor (might have misspelled that). Do a search under Program and Josephine and you should turn up some of her explanations of how it works. And it certainly does seem to.
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-22F = -30C
-4F = -20C
14F = -10C

32F = 0C
41F = 5C
50F = 10C
59F = 15C
68F = 20C
77F = 25C
86F = 30C
95F = 35C

98.6F = 37C
100.4F = 38C
102.2F = 39C
104.0F = 40C
105.8F = 41C
107.6F = 42C
109.4F = 43C
111.2F = 44C
113.0F = 45C
114.8F = 46C
116.6F = 47C
118.4F = 48C
120.2F = 49C
122.0F = 50C


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