I cannot believe I missed this

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truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:38 am


Apples, whom we got from a neighbor who's son was allergic, is about 8 months old. We got her October 28th - almost 6 months ago. She's primarily black, with orange roaning I guess you'd say, and a white leg. I've written about her before - she's always been VERY skittish. She has been eating/gaining weight regularly, although her weight gain has leveled off. A couple times in the past week I've seen/heard her crying for no apparent reason. I kind of thought maybe she has mites, but she seems perfectly healthy, just really skittish.

Just now, I brought her up to bed with my daughter and she was laying on my daughter's chest. I noticed she was shedding; sections of 4-5 hairs were coming off of her, attached by a little tiny "scab" type thing. I kept examing her further, and realized almost her entire backside is at least 50% bald! She also has a several patches where the fur is thicker still, but there is tons of "dandruff", and when you start fussing with it, the hair comes out in clumps. I am an avid, long-time GL member, and anal about my pigs' care, and I cannot believe I've missed this! Obviously the poor thing has a rather severe case of mites (the other two pigs show NO signs whatsoever), and I totally missed it.

I wonder if this totally explains how unbelievably skittish this pig is - she is impossible to catch. I just figured, heck, if she hates being held, I won't hold her, and I rarely do. I was just glad to give her a good home, as my neighbor was about to dump her at the pet store. If Apples wasn't black, I'm sure I would have noticed sooner. Also, her skin is VERY course and "rash-y". I have a good exotics vet who she will be seeing tomorrow, but I now wonder if I've done permanent damage to her by missing this. I just can't believe I missed it, and I have no idea how long she's been this bald on the backside. I don't suppose it's been too, too long, or I would have noticed, but I still feel terrible.

Let this be a warning to anyone who has "skittish" pigs (I know some pigs really just are that way) - check for mites!!

Meanwhile, is there a preferred method of treatment, or do I leave that up to the vet? I feel terrible.

Poor Baby Cuzko
My piggy made me give!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:46 am


Ivermectin is the easiest, least expensive way to treat. As bad as a case she seems to have, you may have to do numerous treatments to get rid of them.

http://www.guinealynx.info/ivermectin.html

User avatar
Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:48 am


Oreo was miserable about being held when we first adopted her. She'd cry the entire time or she'd try to bite. After being on the forum for awhile, I just ordered the Ivermectin myself and treated her. I figured it was a good thing to do with or without confirmation. It made a world of difference. She comes over to us now to be scritched and is very content to lay in our laps and be rubbed. I'd try it, definitely!

User avatar
truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:58 am


Which treatment would be the most effective, most quickly? I could pick up some Ivermectin paste at the tack shop today, but the dosing always scares me, and I'm nervous about using it topically because 1) there are two other pigs in the cage, and 2) Snickers has been barbering Sugar and Apples for weeks now, and I don't want her ingesting it.

Also, I have Metacam on hand - would a dose of that relieve any of Apples' discomfort until I see the vet? I don't know which way to go - oral, topical or injection? I should clarify, it's not that 50% of her backside is stark bald, but rather the hair is so thin, I would guess she's missing at least 50% of it's thickness - probably more.

I want to do whichever treatment in most effective and quickest. I don't care about the cost at all - I want to get her comfortable FAST. So, if cost is not an issue, which way should I go??

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:07 am


Remember you need to treat all of your pigs, whether or not they show signs.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the barbering thing. Horse paste can only be given orally. Besides, Ivermectin is safe to be ingested, so even if you used the injectible form topically, it wouldn't be a problem.

Diluting the paste is extremely easy. The instructions are straightforward and, even though it may seem a bit complicated when you first read it, when you actually sit down with the stuff and do it, it's very easy.

And let me be the first to yell at you and slap you upside the head for not treating any new pig that comes into your home. After all the years you've been here, you should know beter than that, dammit!

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:08 am


Oh, and any way to administer it is fine. Not one is better than the other and they act in about the same time.

Metacam could probably help with the irritatation if she seems in pain.

User avatar
whittibo

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:15 am


I came here because our only pig was scratching something horrible. I was a bit apprehensive about treating myself, but the first time I sat down to do it, it was a breeze. If I can do it, anyone can! I even have detailed pictures I took for a member of my diet forum, showing exactly how to draw the medicine and about how much it should be. It's only a couple drops!

I am not sure if you can get these items locally, but here's links to everything I bought.

Here's a link to the Ivermectin I bought
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07552-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
And needles
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87beca-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5
And syringes
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=c416c1ec-5a5f-45b0-b684-8dcb5fb1bece

You will have to treat them all, so I think buying it yourself and treating them would be the best way, plus you can do it in the future too. I am going through another course right now, today will be our 4th treatment. I seems after 3 they stop scratching, then a couple weeks later one will start again, so this time I am going to do 4, maybe 5. But I have also been very anal about cleaning the cage while they're out, and treating them before I put them back in. I know it might not matter, but I figure it doesn't hurt either.

Don't kick yourself, it doesn't help any. ;)

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truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:29 am


Thanks for all the help. I thought the paste was administered topically. So, if I go to the tack store and get Ivermectin paste for horses, I can safely use it on the pigs by diluting it? I think I'll do that, and give her a dose of Metacam for a couple days, too.

Whittibo, I don't have to kick myself, because E already slapped me upside the head;) To kick myself would just be redundant.

E, the barbering (which I posted about last week, I think) I guess is a normal "quirk" of pigs - she pulls at their hair. Don't know what that's all about. And I don't know if it's related to Snickers' ongoing issues (can't keep weight up - I supplement her with handfeeding 2-3x/day and daily Metacam is keeping her going).

I really screwed up not treating when I got her. She seemed so healthy, I can only explain it away as a temporary brain cramp:/

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:40 am


The paste is very, very easy to use orally. You need a tube of paste (make sure it is Ivermectin, there are many different products), a 1cc syringe without a needle, and a very small container (like a baby food jar or something of a similar size, with a lid).

Some people use propylene glycol to dilute the paste, others use just water. The only difference is that you need to dump each batch if you use water and mix a new one each time you want to treat. I think you can mix 5 batches with one tube, though.

I know what barbering is. I just didn't see what it had to do with Ivermectin. I now see that you think part of the baldness could be barbering, not mites, but you're best still treating everyone.

Honnestly, I'm seriously math challenged and I find treating orally with the paste very, very easy. If you decide to go with the injectible solution and use it topically, it will be even more simple because you use the stuff straight up. No dilution or anything. Both methods are effective. One advantage, though, is that treating topically will also take care of lice, if they have them.

User avatar
truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:58 am


I'm going to run to the tack store when they open, and see what they have. I have plenty of 1cc syringes and small containers. I gave her a .1cc dose of Metacam. Should I keep giving her that until she shows improvement? What is propylene glycol, and where can I get it? If it's preferred over water, I'll use it.

I'm certain she has mites. My concern with the barbering would be that Snickers would ingest the topically-applied Ivermectin while she is doing the barbering. But, since the paste is given orally, I'll go with that. My exotics vet is 40 miles away, so I will be happy to avoid the drive if I can.

Apples' skin is so rough and bumpy - I have to assume that's all related to the mites? I swear, I think if I ran a brush through her hair, it would all come right out. Poor thing. Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I'll be posting again once I get the paste. She weighs just about 900 gms, but I will weigh her again before dosing.

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whittibo

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:02 am


You put the topical behind the ears in the bald spot, so I don't think there is any chance of others ingesting it, but even if they did, if the same thing can be given orally, then it wouldn't matter?!

I didn't know that topically would take care of lice too. Interesting!

And I don't know what propylene glycol is, that's why I didn't go with orally. :s

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:05 am


There would be no problem with your other pig barbering after Ivermectin is applied topically.

Propylene glycol is an oil type of thing. When you buy oral paste, this is one of the things that is in it. I bought mine from the human pharmacy. I explained to my pharmacist friend what I wanted it for and he sold me a bottle, but I'm not sure if you can usually buy it like that. Water works just a well. You just can't keep a mixed batch when you use water.

Try to handle her as little as possible. Her skin is on fire and every little touch hurts like crazy.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:06 am


Personally, I like the 1% injectable more. It can be used orally, by injection, or topically. Topical is a snap.

www.guinealynx.info/topical_ivermectin.html

User avatar
truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:13 am


Where can I get the 1% injectable? Tack store or drugstore?

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:16 am


Do you know many drugstores who carry animal wormers?

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:16 am


Tack store or use Whittbo's online links.

User avatar
truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:25 am


Good; I'll ask at the tack store. I don't want to wait for Valley Vet to ship, I want to start today. So, I dose today, then I can dose as often as every 7 days, at least 3 times, but 4 or 5 won't hurt?
I'm paranoid of overdosing, but she's got a pretty bad case, so I'm also paranoid of underdosing. She hardly EVER makes a sound. She must have a really high tolerance for pain. She never makes ANY guinea pig sounds - wheeking (rarely), purring, nothing. She is stone silent 99.9% of the time. I wonder if it's all related to the mites?

Evangeline

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:29 am


To overdose, you need to use a whole bunch of the stuff. A LOT.

Dosing 4-5 times is what I would do. 7 to 10 days apart is fine. No more and no less, though.

User avatar
truffie
I gave AGAIN, dammit!

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:37 am


Okay, thanks. The tack store opens in 1/2 hour. I'll post a picture later, but I'm 100% sure it's mites. Thank goodness there are no open sores at this point.

User avatar
whittibo

Post   » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:48 am


Hopefully the tack shop will have the topical stuff. I think you'll get a lot more doses out of it and not have to mix anything. Plus, getting her to take something orally might be harder then just drops behind her ears??

If you go to that first link at ValleyVet, print off the picture maybe? It's for cattle and swine I believe, so hopefully your tack shop is a farm supply place too?

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