Soft poop: what the vet said

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:20 am


Since I was at the vet with Sanford last night I brought Piggie Crocket and Henry along for the ride.

Lately PC has been having soft poos that are just not right looking at ALL. Some are quite large and gross, smelly too. It's not full blown diarreah, it's just soft and nasty. The vet said she was VERY gassy and gave me the Simethecone. We wanted to do a fecal test but PC was being spiteful and not pooping for me at the vet. There was some poop in the carrier but we coudln't tell which pig it came from. He said it's possible the gas is coming from too much of her favorite veggies that she hogs from Henry. It's possible. Plus, the boyfriend just admitted that he's been overdosing them on parsely.

I also think PC is underweight. The other piggies are growing at a speed constant with each other. PC only weighs 1lb 6oz. Vet said she has gained since he saw her in April, but the weight non-gain could be due to the poo/gas situation since she's not absorbing much and just passing it through.

PC *is* eating because I'm watching her. She eats a lot of pellets (not just picks them up and drops them), she inhales hay and veggies.

My next steps are to give the Simethecone and go back in a week to do a fecal and put her in a separate carrier so we know whos poop is whos.

My questions:
1) does gas cause gross poops?
2) will yeast-build up show up on a fecal?
3) if this doesn't clear up by itself with the gas drops, what's the next step?

Other than soft poo (and low weight) she is acting 100% her normal self.

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:29 am


I had a pig with a yeast overgrowth, which does indeed show up on a fecal. His poop smelled very bad. Nystatin cured it.

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piggiemomma5372

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:31 am


Is PC gaining weight steadly? Or just not as fast or as much as the other two?

The reason I ask is because we have had Rodger as long as K.C. The other boys (including the two younger ones) are now over 2 1/2 lbs. He (Rodger) hasn't even reached 2 lbs. He is a teddy pig. He is apox. 10 months old.

We figure it's just in his breed and have never thought anything abnormal. So what I'm asking I guess is should we be worried? There is nothing else wrong with him that we have found (except the lice.)

I hope both your piggies get well soon.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:38 am


I know! I feel like all my piggies are having issues at once. Hopefully Sanford is in the clear though.

The low weight doesn't bother me on it's own because I see her eat and she is active. I normally would have assumed that maybe she's a late bloomer or something. I would have brought it up at an annual physical and not taken her in for it specifically, but then the poop situation arose and thought it might be related.

The vet didn't seem too concerned about her low weight because he said it *might* be poop related and that they do gain at different rates. So we're going to see how this goes and what the fecal says and take it from there.

Just for the record, none of my pigs are 2lbs yet. Sanford and Henry are the same weight but Sanford looks HUGE in comparison to Henry. We think that Henry is all muscle while Sanford is all fat. :) And I'm not at all concerned about Sanford or Henrys weight. All my pigs are females too.

Edit: PC has gained steadly but just not as fast or as much as the other two. Also this past week with the poo issue there's been some loss / more fluctuation so it's hard to tell what's going on currently.
Last edited by somechick on Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:38 am


Are they regular poops or cecal poops? www.guinealynx.info/impaction.html

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:41 am


Piggie is a female so impaction is...not possible right? Shoudln't she be eating the cecal poops and not just leave them laying around? Also I think it's far too many to be cecal.

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:13 am


When Piggy has gas the first symptom is soft, oddly shapped poos. Regular dosing with simethicone for several days can clear him right up. If I'm not on the ball, generally because I am am afraid of overmedicating, the problem almost always worsens, not improves.

Over the past year and a half that I've had him, he's had a few boughts with gas and intestional blockages, two of which required cisapride to get things going. All three times the simethicone was extremely useful. When he didn't need the cisapride I am confident it's because I caught the gas first and treated it aggressively, thus preventing abdominal pain and GI stasis.

From what I've read on GL, the simethicone is relitavely innert and safe. I usually give 0.2mL (the high end of the GL recommended dossage) as I saw considerably less benefit when I was dosing with 0.1mL.

I also sit him on my lap and gently massage the sides of his belly to help break up the gas bubbles and then try to encourage him to run around on the floor to further encourage the GI tract to move.

Even more hay has also been recommended to help with the problem so I always have a big pile around, both in the cage and on the floor. Hopefully this wasn't too long.

Edit: I also try and give a little critical care or acadophilous (sp) just in case.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:32 am


She runs around. A LOT. You'd think that would help but she must have some pretty bad gas because when she was at the vet, the vet did that thing where he squeezed her side and then tapped on it (which I can't figure out how to do at home) and she was ALL tight bubble. When he showed me the difference on Sanford & Henry there was no bubble-action just fat and skin.

Here's hoping she just has a gas problem and will be better soon. I can't have loads of sick piggies! I'll CC her as well since I'm stocked from Sanford.

ellenvega
Skol Pigs!

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:18 pm


Treating the gas and then doing a fecal if things don't clear up is the way to go.

Do you feed your pigs carrots? One of my sows can't tolerate carrots, she gets mushy poops from eating them. I also give poop soup when they are having these problems, seems to help.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:30 pm


They get half of a baby carrot every other day. The only recent change in diet is dandelion (and the overdosing of parsley). So maybe PC just didn't tolerate it? I stopped it since I saw the poo situation.

I'll have them out soon for floor time so I can monitor poop properties.

Do any of you think the low weight is poop-related? Just a slow bloomer? Something else going on? Need to be worried?

ellenvega
Skol Pigs!

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:07 pm


FWIW, my sow Dezzie that has the occasional poop problems has always been scrawny compared to her cagemate. She's never quite hit 2 pounds. Dez is otherwise healthy though, she's had a complete checkup by the vet including bloodwork and x-rays. I think maybe her metabolism just doesn't work as well (or too well).

Generally, as long as the weight stays around the same and there's no big loss or other symptoms it's nothing to be concerned about. Some pigs are just naturally flyweights. It is possible she's got a bacterial overgrowth or parasitic infection which could be hindering her weight gain. A fecal should give you answers there.

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somechick

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:19 pm


Thanks. I can't believe I'm getting one pig cleared up and now another one is having problems. We'll see what the fecal says next Saturday when I go back.

Question: how long do I dose the gas drops? Should I do it until next Saturday? That seems like a long time to treat for gas, but I wouldn't know.

klynne

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:57 pm


Somechick, be careful the Simethicone suspension you are using does not contain any of the sugar alcohols, as these cause gas and diarrhea in and of themselves, and are completely counterproductive to what you are trying to accomplish. They would be listed under inactive ingredients. Typical ones used are: Maltitol, Sorbitol, Xylitol.

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rshevin

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:09 pm


klynne,
I looked for those once and all the OTC ones I saw had something in them to sweeten so babies would take it. What kind do you use that doesn't have any sugar alcohols in it?

somechick,
I would treat for 2 days and see if you get any improvement and then play it by ear. Sometimes I first treat 2 times a day for a "few" days and then go down to once a day and am careful to look for any changes. You could also decrease the amount you give. However you are comfortable.

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:16 pm


I wonder, though, if the amount is so tiny in the very small amount of simethicone if it would really hurt?

I must admit that I've used simethicone quite a bit with no ill effects. I suspect the amount of whatever it is used to sweeten them is so tiny as to be pretty harmless - just my opinion of course.

klynne

Post   » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:35 pm


There aren't any local brands in my area without the sugar alcohols, rshevin.

I have friends who have found brands sweetened with Saccharine, which has its own controversies as a carcinogen, but, like Mum said, the tiny amounts. Really would be great if we could find a health food store that would carry just pure Simethicone.

As far as the sugar alcohols, I think myself that it depends on how sensitive the individual animal is to it.

I had one who got violently ill, tons of gas and bloating, with it, so vet prescribed more Simethicone, for the increasing gas. Then the gas got worse, so more Simethicone, then it REALLY got bad, and finally, light bulb moment, we realized the cure was worse than the disease in that case. Within hours of discontinuing the Simethicone, the critter was better.

The big problem is, since these animals are already exhibiting GI symptoms when it's given, how do you separate out what is causing what?

As Salana said, though, it makes no sense to mix in an ingredient known to cause gas and diarrhea with an ingredient supposed to cure gas.

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somechick

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:21 am


Oh jeez. Well my vet just gave it to me in a generic bottle with the vet label on it, so it's not listing ingredients. Hmm.

Today will be my second full day so tomorrow morning I'll check for improvements. The thing is, when I tap on her side it still makes that hollow noise, I guess meaning the gas pockets are still there.

So should I treat until that sound goes away? If it *doesn't* go away by Monday should I reschedule the vet visit sooner? Is it enough that her poops look better? Who knew gas would be this much of a problem.

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:26 am


Simethicone is pretty benign. I would treat as long as you are pretty sure there is gas.

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rshevin

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:41 am


Don't forget the belly massages. Piggy always farts afterwards so I assume it helps a little. You have to be firm but gentle if that makes any sense. You definatly don't want to hurt the little baby.

I understand where you're coming from klynne. I wonder if perhaps your animal had an atypical reaction to the actual simethicone. It happens sometimes. Doesn't take anything away from your valid concerns of course. I'll keep my eye out for ingredients but I guess it's like everything else in life, you have to weigh the benefits and risks.

If I had your experience, I know I'd feel the same way. Since I've has success with it in my pig, I'd continue to use simethicone, albet with a more educated, watchful eye.

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somechick

Post   » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:10 pm


The boyfriend thought he heard Piggie Crocket fart today after the dose. He was sitting there and said it just sounded like a little tuff of wind. Heh.

I'll try the belly rubs. But she's so chatty that I don't know if I'm bothering her or she's just being noisy. She already gained 2 ounces (up to 1lb 7oz - some was lost when the poo problem started) so that's a good sign I hope.

I'm wondering though -- these gross poos she's leaving behind. *IS* it possible it's the cecal ones? Shouldn't she be eating all of those and not leaving so many behind? Hmm, it's probably not though because all her poops look gross so it's not like ALL she's pooping is the cecal ones. Ok forget that.

Klynne - if your pig had gas but reacted badly to the simethicone, what did you give it to fix the gas? You said after discontinuing, the pig got better, but...wouldn't it still need an anti-gas agent?

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