Male with bladder stone--need a good vet

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GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!

Post   » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:41 pm


I'm sorry to hear about Peppi's bladder stones. Is he drinking tap water? If so, you may want to switch to bottled spring water.

I wish someone could figure out why some gps just continue to make bladder stones so we could find a way to stop the cycle.

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scoot

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:55 am


I was looking in an old book on the Laboratory Care of Animals (from about 1960) and it mentioned that sufficient magnesium in the diet was important for the prevention of calcium deposits.

Sorry I can't remember the name but I can get it on Tuesday and post the details.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:04 am


Yes, it is not just the calcium/phosophorus ratio but magnesium also plays a part. I don't know precisely what the best ratios of the three are.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:55 am


but magnesium also plays a part.
Ah - that's very interesting and bears more research I would think.

I wonder if the key to preventing all these problems lies somewhere in that?

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TWP_2

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:27 pm


Hmm. Going to go look at magnesium content levels in various veggies...

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:33 pm


Hey, it is possible I can make this easy for you. I think with the excel calculator, I have the magnesium levels hidden. I'll go see if I can remember how to reveal them so you can also calculate content (if you can figure out how it fits in).

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:50 pm


Looked at the calculator and the info isn't there. Will take some looking around to find it.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:20 pm


Last edited by Lynx on Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Serena
It started with Louie...

Post   » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:15 pm


I just saw your update now and I am so sad to read about another stone. I went through the same exact thing and can empathize with your hopelessness. Just try to keep him comfortable and remind yourselves that you did all you could.

I wish with all my heart that someone will find a cure to these awful bladder stones quickly. They are hurting too many wonderful pigs and their caring owners.

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scoot

Post   » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:48 pm


Here is the information I mentioned but I don't know how relevant it is now I look at it again.

THe UFAW Handbook on the Care and Management of Laboratory animals. Ed UFAW, Published Churchill Livingstone Edinburgh and London 4th edition 1972
(University Federation for Animal Welfare)

Chapter 19 The Guinea pig or cavy. J Stuart Paterson.

P 232
Table VIII Trace elemented mineral suppliment percentage composition
Sodium Chloride 40.2%
Limestone flour 9.82%
Dicalcium phosphate 31.2%
Magnesium oxide 16.4%
Iron sulphate 1.47
Copper sulphate 0.098
Manganese sulphate 0.77
Cobalt sulphate 0.019
Calcium iodate 0.023

pp239 Soft tissue calcification.
The writer has seen this condition on numerous occasions:it probably has a dietetic origin. It was principally found in adult breeding boars aged 12 to 18 months but it did occur in females, and was seen in animals as young as 3 months. Characteristically, deposits of calcium were found in the myocardium, in the stomach wall, and in the kidneys, but the most striking picture was seen at the flexure of the colon, where massive calcification extending distally from this point for 25 or 38 mm was so severe as to cause a marked degree of bowel occlusion. As this occlusion developed, so the passage of food through the gut was slowed down. There was a steady loss of bodily condition, and the animal eventually died. The condition disappered when diet Q.G.P. was substituted for Diet 18. It was thought at first that the more regular intake of vitamin D and the narrowing of the calcium:phospherous ratio were effectively preventing the deposition of calcium in the soft tissue; more recent studies, however, have indicated that the condition does not occur when there is a balanced interrelationship beteen magnesium, calcium and phosphorous (Wickham, 1958: Maynard et al., 1958) and it is more likely that the addition of minerals containing an adequate amount of magnesium was responsible for the improvement.

References : Wickham,N. (1959) Calcification of soft tissues associated with dietary magnesium deficiency in the guinea-pig
Aust. vet. J., 34, 244-8
Maynard., Boggs., Fisk., Seguin (1958) , Dietary mineral inter-relations as a cause of soft tissue calcification in guinea-pigs. J. Nutr., 64, 85.

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Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:04 pm


more recent studies, however, have indicated that the condition does not occur when there is a balanced interrelationship beteen magnesium, calcium and phosphorous (Wickham, 1958: Maynard et al., 1958) and it is more likely that the addition of minerals containing an adequate amount of magnesium was responsible for the improvement.
That is really interesting. I wonder if Becky could somehow adjust the ca/ph table to reflect an appropriate balance of magnesium? And I wonder just how much magnesium they're talking about?

TwoWhitePiggies

Post   » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:55 pm


Our vet at K-State gave a much higher dose of metacam - I am pretty sure we were allowed to give up to 1.25 mL a day. I am convinced that this made a huge difference in our pigs' ability to pass stones because of the tremendous reduction in inflammation.

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