Yipes! Poor Nina has a badly swollen foot!

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pinta

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:44 pm


You're losing your mind.

Peony is a crested self red. Zag was a brown(stuff it, E) abby. Nibel was a white sikie. Shiraz was a chocolate satin. All with Pea eye.

Evangeline

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:10 pm


That's not what I meant, dammit! I know pigs from other colors get pea eye too. I just thought I heard that cream ones are especially susceptible to it.

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melcvt00

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:21 pm


Doh. Too bad I don't have a curved tip syringe on hand to take a picture of. I could always mail you a few, Lynx. I have access to them 4-5 days a week. The ends are as small as a pen tip...though you can cut them back to make the opening larger if you want.

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Lynx
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Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:55 pm


I hope to be able to get one tomorrow (as I posted). I'll take a pic of it and stick it in here. Maybe I should make a supplies page and have pics of what things look like.

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Cara

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:12 pm


Pete had terrible pea eye, almost gross looking and he had a bit of cream in him though mostly red and brown with some black.

Evangeline

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:14 pm


You can't have cream and red on the same pig. Most likely, it was lighter (faded) red.

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Cara

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:25 pm


Ok, just looked like cream then.

Charybdis

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:24 pm


Here you go, Lynx:

Image

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:36 pm


Looks good! I tried flushing her wound tonight. Things were pretty bloody so I only soaked it a very short while (did not want her to bleed excessively). Flushed it more or less. I can see that syringe would work much better. Now I know what I'm looking for. Looks like it would hold 3cc or so?

The swelling was down on her foot some, probably partly because the vet used a pressure bandage up and down. She said when there is even pressure over the whole foot it helps with the swelling. Supposedly you don't want it tight on the ankle but if it's the whole foot, help helps. I tried to make it slightly firmer since it still seemed bloody though it was not actively bleeding when I wrapped it.

FYI, I was also encouraged to cut a small, perhaps 1/2" square piece of a Kendall Telfa "ouchless" Non-Adherent pad. This is something like the pad under a standard bandage and soaks up the blood. Then wrapped with gauze and a breathable tape, this time the whole foot.

The vet used one of those stretchy semi-adhesive bandage material that comes on a roll over the gauze. You can unpeel it pretty easily. The tape I use has to be cut off.

Charybdis

Post   » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:42 pm


The syringe holds 12cc. It's pretty big.

The ouchless pad sounds like a good idea. Glad to hear that the swelling is going down.

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:50 pm


Yes, that's exactly what the syringes I got looked like (I got two). And they are PERFECT for this use. I don't know how anyone could expect a 1cc syringe to work adequately. It slips in to the hole (sniff) easily, I rotated it around and pulled it slightly out when I couldn't depress the plunger (pressing against something). It does seem pretty clean in there. I've switched to the elastic gauze bandages over the plain gauze, first putting on that Telfa pad. I see those pads are sold in pharmacies and should be pretty accessible.

I think the worst thing about this is I don't really know what happened. If this is bumblefoot, I have pretty good living circumstances, she gets around (the fastest or at least most slippery pig). All the standard cautions, in my opinion, don't apply. The hay is the only thing that could have cut her foot. There just isn't anything else. And if this happened without a cut, I have no idea how to cure it or prevent it from happening again.

But thanks to you all for letting me know about those curved tip syringes. They really are perfect for flushing an abscess.

pinta

Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:51 pm


My vet says no one really knows what cause bumblefoot. We do know trhat living conditions is not the sole casue since pigs in the right environment get it.

I believe there are 2 causes/types. One is caused by bacteria and one is caused by poor circulation (look to the heart).

Again, many of my heart pigs have had bumblefoot.

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:34 pm


I found an article on pododermatitis with pics and pics of radiographs by Dr. Nakamura. It is pretty thorough and reiterates much of what Josephine has stated.

http://petplace.netscape.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=1134

I've been reading around. Fat rabbits and rabbits that pound their hind feet get pododermatitis. I'm going to rearrange my pigs' living situation as there is a shelf they jump up and down from that is 7" high. They don't have to use that route but can instead jump into the bathroom and then up or down. They jump down on a rubber matt (under a cloth) but this may possibly aggravate Nina's problem. I'm going to try to do something more padded and stepped. A pic of their living situation on this page: www.guinealynx.info/my-pigs.html I'll try any arrangement if it might help poor Nina.

pinta

Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 8:50 pm


re your link: Yeah - that's the conventional standard belief. However, pigs still get bumblefoot when housed in optimum conditions. That article only covers bumblefoot caused by a poor environment and bacteria. The reasons for bumblefoot given in that article do not apply to the cases I have had. And I don't think they apply to yours. Are your pigs kept in any of the conditions related?

Take away your pigs chance to use their leg muscles by jumping and you will contribute to them getting less muscle work-out. My vet has researched bumble foot heavily because of our pigs. She has also consulted other vets about it. Her conclusion was that no one really knows enough about it.

My last severe case of bumble foot was Poppy. She pretty much permanently wore bandages on her hindfeet. The feet would heal and look great and reulcerate as soon as she no longer had support (binding her feet). We recently lost her after a molar filing. Autopsy showed 2 different kinds of heart disease. No chance of good circulation with a heart in as bad shape as hers was. Her bumblefoot had absolutely nothing to do with the causes outlined in that link.

Considering vets are only just now even recognizing that pigs can have heart disease, it comes as no surprise to me that they wouldn't think to attribute a possible cause of bumblefoot to poor circulation.

Evangeline

Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:04 pm


Hey, the pig with the really bad ulcerated front foot belongs to someone from here and is a Hollister sow. I'm pretty sure, anyway. Now, who was it? Zoe?

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Becky

Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:40 pm


Right, Zoe.

I think all of the Hollister pigs who had bumblefoot (and there certainly were many of them) fall into the category in Dr. N.'s article. They were kept in atrocious conditions.

But I'd agree that Nina couldn't possibly have bumblefoot from any of those conditions. I'm betting the farm, Lynx, that your pig room is pretty darn sanitary.

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Lynx
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Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:18 pm


I think so too. Bathroom is spacious and cleaned once a day. Towels shaken and changed once a day (dried, flipped to use clean side another day). There are only three pigs. They walk around on cloth when they're eating which should be good for the feet.

I was searching on heart and pododermatitis. Google has severe limitations. I was hoping to turn up something in any species.

I may be seeing a human podiatrist in the next couple weeks or so. I'll try to find out if there is a link between heart and foot problems in humans (I wouldn't be surprised).

I do think what you say makes sense, Pinta. But at the moment she has none of the other problems you mention like frequent uri's weight loss, noticeable bad breathing. I figure I should be trying to heal this ulcer before bringing this up as a possibility. I don't know this vet and she may be reluctant to try a heart medication without more indication of definite problems.

Pinta, you say you have some pigs with permanent bumblefoot? If there is no ulceration, do you do anything?

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CenterFielderNo5

Post   » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:12 pm


I wish I could come up with ideas to help but obviously I don't have enough experience to know what I'm talking about. I hope her foot gets better soon. Poor little piggy.

pinta

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:15 am


If there's no ulceration I use corn cushions for extra padding. I think all the info about them is in the bumblefoot section. They protect the foot once it is healed.

I thought Nina was breathing heavier than usual and had Pea Eye developing.

pinta

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2003 1:00 am


I doubt you'll find anything drawing a connection between bumblefoot and heart disease. Just isn't enough known.

However with humans, people with poor circulation develop thick ankles and swollen feet.....

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