Yipes! Poor Nina has a badly swollen foot!

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Lynx
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Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:27 am


The more noticeable breathing was more recent. I thought it also possible it was an indication she was in pain. I think pain can change your breathing habits if it is significant. The pea eye is very slight and at the moment not noticeable.

So all your pigs with bumblefoot have corn cushions? I think you described how they were put on (dry, clean foot; heat from hands) and said they fall off on their own in 4 or 5 days.

I'm going to see how the healing progresses and then see if the vet would think heart meds were appropriate.

pinta

Post   » Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:41 am


No, they fall off in about 10 days. My bumblefoot pigs are still ulcerated so they aren't wearing corn pads right now.

Pigs with bad hearts are more easily stressed.

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:00 am


Poor Nina pulled off her foot wrap last night and chewed off some of the skin on the top of her foot (which is still swollen, still getting baytril 2Xday, wraps, soaks, flush 2X day). Looks awful. Putting triple antibiotic ointment on it and the hole in the bottom of her foot, the protective pad one each injury, gauze, then wrap. I'll use tape around ankle to try to try to ensure she can't pull it off again.

I hope the swelling goes down before too long. It has to be terribly uncomfortable.

pinta

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:44 pm


Is she on pain meds? Rimadyl would be a good idea. Might bring down the swelling.

I would be inclined to stop soaking it for a couple of days. Just flush as needed. Give the wound a chance to dry out.

I'm a little concerned that the vet went further than she should have in cleaning out the wound and might have removed flesh. From what you say, the foot sounds worse. Is there still pus?

Peony has an ulcer on her front paw. I don't soak, I change the bandage every 2 days and pack the wound with antibiotic ointment. If it doesn't smell and looks clean, I don't rinse. It is healing nicely and is not swollen. I would change bandages daily if it was swelling. She's on Doxy for a URI. Her other ulcer on the other front foot is healed and she is wearing a corn cushion.

Her hindfoot is taking longer to heal but I believe that is due to her poor circulation and weak heart(assumed).

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:14 pm


I could have cried when I saw the skin missing from the top of her foot. She's not on pain medication right now, though it sure might help. Maybe I can do that (I think I have some rimadyl). She is maintaining weight, eating greens okay and a few pellets but I notice her turning down her fave tomato and only a bit off a nice strawberry. I don't know if this is due to pain or the baytril.

I was thinking of switching to one soak/flush a day to let it heal more (I called Vicki). I dry it off thoroughly with a blow drier when I'm done. I never really saw any pus since the vet cleaned it out. Flushing doesn't seem to do much. I can only get in maybe a 1/16" and it seems to run clear. The vet claimed this is normal, the antibiotics are probably preventing the development of pus. It doesn't smell at all.

It is hard to know if the vet was too aggressive. All I know is Nina is limping and not moving as much. I try to make sure there is grass, hay and food within easy reach should she be interested. Nina is my softest pig and my squeaky wheel. The girl who talks alot, makes happy burbly noises as she walks. I still hear them but not as often. I'm sad.

HollyT
Get on your bike.

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:38 pm


I'm sorry. I'm sure it is only temporary. Nina will be back to her old self soon. You're doing a great job taking care of her.

pinta

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:12 pm


The skin might have come off the the adhesive from the bandage when she worked it off.

We usually leave the bandage on for 2 or even 3 days if there is no indication of infection. Gives the wound a chance to heal without interference.

Make sure you have upped her C to 50mg/kg while she's healing.

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 9:41 pm


Thanks for the C reminder. I forgot.

There was no adhesive on the top of her foot, just loose gauze. She had to have chewed off her skin (1/3 to 1/2 the skin on the top of her foot). All I see is pink flesh. The wrapping around the gauze is not adhesive, but a product called vetwrap (see pic below). Maybe you have used it? It is elasticky and clings to itself and nothing else.

There is only a small bit of actual adhesive tape on the outside of this vetwrap to hold it in place.

Image

And a close-up of the stuff:

Image

It comes it pretty colors. I like red because it is easier to tell if it has fallen off. I got this at the local feed store. It's 4" wide, I cut off a one inch section which works better for wrapping. It should not be done up too tightly or circulation would be cut off.

I'm trying to remember the rimadyl dose. I found this:
Dose is 1mg/kg -- Crush a 25 mg caplet, mix with 12 cc liquid, and give .50 cc (which is approximately 1 mg) to a 1000 gram pig (approx 2 1/4 pound) I think this needs to be shaken well before drawing the dose, if I remember right. I'll have to see if I have any. I forget, once a day?

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lisam

Post   » Fri Apr 11, 2003 11:14 pm


Vet wrap is great stuff. I use it all the time with the horses.

pinta

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:53 am


Our Rimadyl is liquid - 2mg/ml. We give 0.5cc daily to a 1 lkg pig but I believe you can go up to 1cc daily divided if you like. Maybe Josephine can confirm.

Yeah, I use the vetwrap. Use the Nu-skin gel bandage under the gauze and the vetwrap. It really does hasten healing.

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smiley
Just Do It

Post   » Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:05 am


I am so sorry to hear about your Nina. Sounds like you are giving her the best care. Good luck.

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Lynx
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Post   » Sun Apr 13, 2003 10:18 am


These are some recent pics, I'm sticking here so I have something to refer to.
1 - A side pic of the injured foot. Looks like irritation on her skin also. The swelling has subsided somewhat.
2 - A top pic of the skin pulled off.
3 - The left foot (the other foot), side view. Since she is limping, it is getting more pressure on it now.
4 - Left foot bottom. It looks worse in the pic than it is, but it seems to me it is bumblefoot with the other slightly swollen.

Pinta, when you used heart medications on your pigs with bumblefoot, did it help? How soon did you see improvement if so?

-----------------------------------

Arg. She got the wrap off and removed more skin so the area missing skin is larger than pictured. I also decided to wrap the ankle also with gauze because I thought the vetwrap may have been irritating her ankle. And I went back to a rigid, breathable tape. I hope it stays on.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Evangeline

Post   » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:37 pm


Ouch!

I'd keep her on pain killers for sure.

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 18, 2003 10:54 am


Here's a pic from this morning. You can see how much skin is missing now. I think it's been about 6 days since the skin was pulled off and it doesn't seem to be scabbing, healing, or doing much of anything. I am somewhat worried about the darker flesh near the toes. But I don't know that there is anything else I can do besides the baytril, antibiotic ointment, and bandage wraps.

As a recap, the swollen foot (more swollen than this pic) was noticed 2 weeks ago tomorrow. Her foot was soaked and she got some bactrim until Monday when a vet anesthetized her and cleaned out the apparently infected area (foot pad). She got 0.5mg/kg baytril 2 X day plus twice daily soaks and flushes with a chlorhexederm solution for a week until she pulled off the wrap and some of her skin. Then once daily or just flushes of open sore on sole to try to allow the skin on top to heal. Then she pulled off some more skin a day or two later.

If anyone familiar with injuries where skin has been removed has any helpful comments, I would appreciate them. The amount the foot is swollen went down somewhat but seems to have stabilized and is still more swollen than normal.

In addition, her left foot (the other one) has been soaked daily for the last few days and Preparation H ointment applied (advice from a friend who has had good luck with its healing and soothing properties, recc. by her vet).

Besides putting ointment on the right foot pictured below, I am using a product recommended to prevent chewing on injuries, sprayed on on top of the triple antibiotic ointment before wrapping (in case she pulls the wrap off). It is sold by vets and called "Chew Guard". You can see what it looks like here: www.guinealynx.info/photos/chewguard.jpg This product is peppery -- it has antiseptic properties and is supposedly safe to put directly on wounds. When sprayed, it creats a fine mist so you want to cover your animal's face and avoid inhaling it yourself. I will be using it on her paw once the dressing is off, was advised not to put it on the inside of her foot so she doesn't rub it in her eyes when cleaning.

Image

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:09 pm


Addendum: I stopped by my vet's office with my camera and a pic of her foot (that you couldn't see very well). He suggested 10 more days of 5mg/kg baytril q12h, soak the whole foot once a day in a chlorhexedine dilute solution and not putting any antibiotic ointment on the injury. Just the telfa pad, guaze, and bandage. A friend of mine who has seen alot of injuries thinks the paw is looking better.

I'm taking all the pigs to the vet next Wed (Snowflake and Kitten to compare feet). And see what he thinks about Nina's general health and if heart meds would be indicated.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:20 pm


Poor baby. I hope that the swelling goes down soon. Painkillers would definitely help. Maybe she was chewing on it because it hurt her.

Lynx, when you get a chance, would it be possible to add the Rimadyl and Meloxicam dosing information to the "medications" sticky? It would be very helpful for people to have as a reference. The Reglan dosing information would be great to add too.

The meloxicam dosing info is in my thread on Humphrey:

http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4679&start=20

The Reglan dosing information is on this thread:

http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4660&highlight=bloat

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:27 pm


I have been thinking of doing it also. I just want to get it right -- and have time to do it. Nina is no longer limping and I have been giving her a painkiller for the last 6 days.

The information I really need to find is the cautions for the common medications like aspirin, acetominophen and ibuprophen. Because they are so readily available, people may feel they can use them but not be aware of some of the associated problems. And ideally they would be prescribed by a vet.

For example, ibuprophen is in a coated form so it does not irritate our stomaches as much, but a cut up pill would have no such coating if given to a guinea pig. It is hard to know what is safe and under what circumstances. I want to avoid self diagnosing if possible.

Charybdis

Post   » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:32 pm


That's a good idea. Personally, I would never give aspirin or ibuprofen to my pigs, but then again I always have Meloxicam on hand.

Hopefully someone will come along with information about the side effects of both those OTC drugs on cavies.

I think the painkiller and reglan dosing information would be helpful not just for people like me who have supplies, but for vets who are new to cavies.

Didn't someone recently OD their pig on Meloxicam? Or was that a result of mis-reading the label?

Glad to hear that Nina is feeling a little better.

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Lynx
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Post   » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:58 pm


Charybdis, I added some pain medications, motility drugs, and heart drugs to the medications page. Don't have a dose up for the ACE inhibitors though. I can't find it mentioned in any of my books.

Meloxicam is apparently a new drug (okayed in 2000). It doesn't appear in any of my med books. I found some internet references and decided to only use the lower dose and drop the higher range.

Reglan dosing information is widely available in multiple references so vets should have no difficulty using it.

Oh, and Nina seems to be doing okay. The skin seems to be healing (more or less) and she is still on 0.5mg/kg baytril 2Xday. She's eating well and fairly happy.

I do think my soaking the other foot in the chlorhexidine solution has helped it.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:54 pm


Glad to hear about Nina's recovery.

I like what you've done with the medications page. That will be the first place we send vets on our referral list. Thanks for taking the time to put that information up there.

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