7/23/2005, 5:26 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
O.K. people, I have been doing some research on this Chinese Herb and I'm looking for more information and answers.
The "correct" Chinese name is Shi Lin Tong. Often English speakers will make it one word, Shilintong. The Chinese herb is Desmodium styracifolium. The common name is Coin-Leaved Desmodium. I have also found a South American/rainforest species and remedy that is Desmodium adscendens or common name Amor Seco.
I need to know if people have a domestic supply in the US/other than China. Due to the manufacturing issues in China, it is not recommended for people in other countries to utilize Chinese-manufactured remedies due to various impurities. Chinese herbal remedies are often made up of 10-20 various herbs and vary considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer. You never really know what you're getting.
I also need to know if the leaves only or the leaves and the stems are the active part of the plant. Some remedies have one or the other--or both. Big difference.
I would like to know any other processing concerns, e.g. stability, availability as tinctures, dried herbs, etc. I'm doing various searches but not finding SOLID information. I don't have any personal acquaintances well-versed in TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine).
From what I find, the main useful effects on the urinary tract include muscle relaxation (therefore alleviation of discomfort and inflammation) and increased diuresis.
Dosing information on cavies (albeit anecdotal) would be helpful here as well as links to other sites. I'll have to link this thread to the mentions of usage here on GL.
The "correct" Chinese name is Shi Lin Tong. Often English speakers will make it one word, Shilintong. The Chinese herb is Desmodium styracifolium. The common name is Coin-Leaved Desmodium. I have also found a South American/rainforest species and remedy that is Desmodium adscendens or common name Amor Seco.
I need to know if people have a domestic supply in the US/other than China. Due to the manufacturing issues in China, it is not recommended for people in other countries to utilize Chinese-manufactured remedies due to various impurities. Chinese herbal remedies are often made up of 10-20 various herbs and vary considerably from manufacturer to manufacturer. You never really know what you're getting.
I also need to know if the leaves only or the leaves and the stems are the active part of the plant. Some remedies have one or the other--or both. Big difference.
I would like to know any other processing concerns, e.g. stability, availability as tinctures, dried herbs, etc. I'm doing various searches but not finding SOLID information. I don't have any personal acquaintances well-versed in TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine).
From what I find, the main useful effects on the urinary tract include muscle relaxation (therefore alleviation of discomfort and inflammation) and increased diuresis.
Dosing information on cavies (albeit anecdotal) would be helpful here as well as links to other sites. I'll have to link this thread to the mentions of usage here on GL.
7/23/2005, 5:30 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
Here's GP Lover's Thread
Oh, and I need to know safety/usage with other Western drugs. Hard to find, I know.
Oh, and I need to know safety/usage with other Western drugs. Hard to find, I know.
7/23/2005, 8:03 pm
GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!
I can't answer your questions about the herb but I can tell you that the pills I have are just coin leaved desmodium. There are no other ingredients listed on the bottle. The name on the bottle is "Shilintong".
If anything else is in the pills I couldn't say.
I doubt you'll find a domestic supply because it is a chinese herb supplement.
The pills I have say the ingredient is 19g+ per pill.
I took one pill and dissolved it enough water to fill about 4 x 1cc syringes and gave Angel 2 x 1cc syringes/day.
The change in her was remarkable.
If anything else is in the pills I couldn't say.
I doubt you'll find a domestic supply because it is a chinese herb supplement.
The pills I have say the ingredient is 19g+ per pill.
I took one pill and dissolved it enough water to fill about 4 x 1cc syringes and gave Angel 2 x 1cc syringes/day.
The change in her was remarkable.
7/23/2005, 8:22 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
All of the CE I've gone to with homeopaths, herbalists, etc. all state using domestic Chinese preparations. I know it can be done with other herbs. I've found some variations, including just ground herb, which is the best option I've seen. I think it was Amor Seco, though... some people say it works the same, but I'm skeptical--especially on the internet and based on the little training I've had in this area. I have done more training than some of my peers, though.
I think that the laws in China make it O.K. to not list all the ingredients on the label. I don't know much legal stuff, though. I found one site that names dozens of herbs in one "Shi Lin Tong" remedy, so I'm sure it's a concern.
I think that the laws in China make it O.K. to not list all the ingredients on the label. I don't know much legal stuff, though. I found one site that names dozens of herbs in one "Shi Lin Tong" remedy, so I'm sure it's a concern.
7/23/2005, 8:41 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
I guess I'll organize my finds here for discussion's sake:
United Pharm. Manufactory[url=http://www.maxnature.com/shilintong.html]
Another Company with UPM Product[/url]
Third UPM Link
Rx List FAQ
A TCM preparation with "extras"
Desmodium Tea
Amor Seco powder and info
GFC TCM Shi Lin Tong with "extras"
Kidney Chi TCM formula with "extras"
United Pharm. Manufactory[url=http://www.maxnature.com/shilintong.html]
Another Company with UPM Product[/url]
Third UPM Link
Rx List FAQ
A TCM preparation with "extras"
Desmodium Tea
Amor Seco powder and info
GFC TCM Shi Lin Tong with "extras"
Kidney Chi TCM formula with "extras"
7/24/2005, 1:18 pm
Lynx
Heartless Dictator
I don't know if she'd be able to help you but I'll bet she would try -- write Alison (forum member). She occasionally writes me, just got a couple new guinea pigs (if I remember correctly) though she hasn't posted in over a year. Alison is in Hong Kong.
7/24/2005, 2:15 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
Thanks, I will.
7/24/2005, 4:53 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
Lynx, I just tried to email Alison. Her profile doesn't allow emails. You'll have to send her address to me.
7/24/2005, 7:36 pm
Lynx
Heartless Dictator
Will do. I don't think she'll mind.
7/24/2005, 9:11 pm
I get your message via email. In fact, I know almost nothing about Chinese herbs. However, I would be glad if I can help your research.
First of all, I would like to clarify if Shilington = 石淋通 in Chinese. If yes, please let me know what info you would like to have. This herb is for kidney / urinary system. Right?
First of all, I would like to clarify if Shilington = 石淋通 in Chinese. If yes, please let me know what info you would like to have. This herb is for kidney / urinary system. Right?
7/24/2005, 9:32 pm
Lynx
Heartless Dictator
Hi Alison. I'll let Josephine answer that question (or maybe Carol, if the Chinese characters appear on her bottle).
Yes, this seems to be something for the urinary system. Carol has had good luck treating interstitial cystitis with it (pain on urination), if I remember the details correctly.
Yes, this seems to be something for the urinary system. Carol has had good luck treating interstitial cystitis with it (pain on urination), if I remember the details correctly.
7/24/2005, 9:44 pm
Hi, Lynx,
I have found a Chinese herb website which seems to have sales channel in US. However, I am not sure if the herbs are approved by US govt. Thus, I send the website to Josephine via private mail for her to check.
On the other hand, I also see an introductory message of "shilington" on rat (not sure if this is guinea pig or not). Nevertheless, this message is prepared by the herb company. Thus, I doubt if the result is true or not. I hesitate to send this to Josephine. Anyhow, Josephine, please let me know if you want this one. I can do the translation and send to you via email.
I have found a Chinese herb website which seems to have sales channel in US. However, I am not sure if the herbs are approved by US govt. Thus, I send the website to Josephine via private mail for her to check.
On the other hand, I also see an introductory message of "shilington" on rat (not sure if this is guinea pig or not). Nevertheless, this message is prepared by the herb company. Thus, I doubt if the result is true or not. I hesitate to send this to Josephine. Anyhow, Josephine, please let me know if you want this one. I can do the translation and send to you via email.
7/24/2005, 11:03 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
Alison's URL
It looks like the same characters and stuff as the first couple of links I posted. I bet it's the same. We can get it in the US, I just can't find detailed info on usage and drug interactions, etc.
I don't think I need the other website translated unless it has specific info. Anectdotal stuff from owners doesn't really count right now. I can find tons of that. Thanks anyway, Alison. I really appreciate it.
It looks like the same characters and stuff as the first couple of links I posted. I bet it's the same. We can get it in the US, I just can't find detailed info on usage and drug interactions, etc.
I don't think I need the other website translated unless it has specific info. Anectdotal stuff from owners doesn't really count right now. I can find tons of that. Thanks anyway, Alison. I really appreciate it.
7/25/2005, 5:22 am
Josephine,
Shilington is in fact a mixture of various kinds of Chinese herbs. And there are many suppliers for Shilington. They base on the traditional formula and make their own branded Shilington. Sometimes there is adjustment on volume mix. For instance,
广金钱草 1500g 石韦 500g 海金沙 25g 忍冬藤 500g ..... -> make to certain concertration and package as Shilington.
<I need to find english translation for you.> Please let me know if this is what you need.
Shilington is in fact a mixture of various kinds of Chinese herbs. And there are many suppliers for Shilington. They base on the traditional formula and make their own branded Shilington. Sometimes there is adjustment on volume mix. For instance,
广金钱草 1500g 石韦 500g 海金沙 25g 忍冬藤 500g ..... -> make to certain concertration and package as Shilington.
<I need to find english translation for you.> Please let me know if this is what you need.
7/25/2005, 7:26 am
melcvt00
The Woman
Have you tried Mayway?
7/25/2005, 9:35 am
Lynx
Heartless Dictator
If each company's shilington has a different mixture of Chinese herbs, this is important information. I think Carol was under the impression that there was one basic herb. With a mixture, it is hard to know which is the one with the most important active ingredient -- or if two or more herbs have important functions.
Yes, Alison, an English translation of the different herbs that make up shilington would be great.
Yes, Alison, an English translation of the different herbs that make up shilington would be great.
7/25/2005, 9:54 am
GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!
"I think Carol was under the impression that there was one basic herb."
I can only advise what is on the bottle that I have at home.
I have no info on this product other than that and what I read about others using it. I based my decision to use it on the success others had and the fact that options for Angel had run out.
It was the best decision because the last two months of her life were pain free. My vets also believe in using chinese herbs. They had no problem with it.
I can only advise what is on the bottle that I have at home.
I have no info on this product other than that and what I read about others using it. I based my decision to use it on the success others had and the fact that options for Angel had run out.
It was the best decision because the last two months of her life were pain free. My vets also believe in using chinese herbs. They had no problem with it.
7/25/2005, 10:01 am
Lynx
Heartless Dictator
If they only list one herb on the bottle, thinking there was only one herb is the only logical thing you could do. I'm sure you know I am not faulting you in any way, just trying to contribute to the post.
7/25/2005, 10:13 am
GP Lover
My home, ruled by pigs!
Oh yeah Lynx...no problem. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not claiming anything about this herb in general, only from the bottle I have.
It wasn't an easy decision to make not knowing much about it. I've been reading about others' experience for at least 1 year now.
It wasn't an easy decision to make not knowing much about it. I've been reading about others' experience for at least 1 year now.
7/25/2005, 4:53 pm
Josephine
Beauty and a Brain
Little Jo Wheek
Little Jo Wheek
Mayway?
Yes, that's exactly what I have been trying to say. Every manufacturer's concoction of Shi Lin Tong is different. That's why I wanted to find the most stable and best forumula. Safest if made here. They can import the herbs, but it should be processed here. Like I've said before, all of the CE I've gone to has been from experienced TCM practioners, and they all say how important it is to get stuff processed in the US. This specific question hasn't come up until recently, so I really haven't had the opportunity to ask a specialist about it. I want to make sure I'm using the appropriate formula without any toxic stimulants or other stuff in it.
Yes, that's exactly what I have been trying to say. Every manufacturer's concoction of Shi Lin Tong is different. That's why I wanted to find the most stable and best forumula. Safest if made here. They can import the herbs, but it should be processed here. Like I've said before, all of the CE I've gone to has been from experienced TCM practioners, and they all say how important it is to get stuff processed in the US. This specific question hasn't come up until recently, so I really haven't had the opportunity to ask a specialist about it. I want to make sure I'm using the appropriate formula without any toxic stimulants or other stuff in it.