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4/15/2007, 3:29 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





I have a female pig, nearly 6 years old, with a chronic bloating problem.

This all started back in January, when another pig was very ill, and I started cutting some grass from the garden for all the pigs, to encourage the ill one to eat. A couple of days later, Milly waddled out in the morning, all bloated. She tucked into her breakfast normally, and was passing normal poops.

She was backwards and forwards to the vet over the next couple of weeks, taking metaclopramide which softened her sides a bit, but the vet was confused as she was still fairly bright in herself, and still eating and pooping normally. In the end, she admitted that Milly needed an exotic specialist, and found and referred Milly to an exotic vet not to far away.

This new vet diagnosed ovarian cysts. Milly had huge ovarian cysts, and his theory was that the cysts were causing pressure on her respiratory area, causing her to gulp air. Milly was spayed the next day, and apart from some initial bloating controlled by metaclopramide, she recovered well.

A couple of weeks ago, the weather was warm, and the grass dry, so the pigs went out in the run in the garden for a bit. Now Milly has suffered from cystitis on and off all through the summer months for the last two or three years. Sure enough, there were spots of red in the cage the next day. I managed to treat this with barley water as usual, although it took longer to control than normal, but she also started to bloat up again. I used up my supply of metaclopramide on her, but she was still full of air. Again, she was eating and pooping normally.

Back to the exotic vet. He was puzzled, and asked if he could keep her in for a day or so to monitor her, and to research her problem. I wasnt too keen on this, but agreed if it would help. I collected her two days later. She had been fed almost entirely on hay, and had lost a little weight, but half of the bloat had gone. He felt that there was some connection between the grass, cystitis, and the bloat, and he said that he had a vague recollection of reading a research paper on a connection between grass, a fungal toxicity and cystitis, but he had never heard of a case of bloat where the pig continued to eat pretty normally. He said he would report her case on an exotic vets forum to try and find a way of stopping the bloating. In the mean time, he suggests treating her with metaclopramide when she needs it.

Has anyone had experience of looking after a pig with symptoms like this? Are there any foods that may make her bloat worse that I should avoid?

(Sorry this is a long post, but I was trying to include any relevant info.)
4/15/2007, 4:28 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




Fresh spring grass can cause bloat if your pig is not used to it and eats too much. I would cut back and focus on lots of high quality hay.

You want to avoid starchy items and pellets. Use good quality pellets if you use any.
4/15/2007, 4:45 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





Thanks, Lynx. The pigs only go in the run for 30 mins max at the begining of the summer, and I have started only putting them out alternate days for the time being.

I am just switching them over to pellets from a standard GP mix. There is a shortage of good pellets in the UK, but I took advice from a previous link about best type available, and I'm trying Pets at Home Guinea Pig Nuggets. According to the packet, the have the same contents and analysis as Supa Guinea Excel.

Although the vets hay-only diet reduced some of her bloat, she also lost 25grams weight in the 2 days he had her, so I'm trying to make sure she doesn't lose any more weight.
4/16/2007, 12:04 am
sus4rabbitsnpigs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
sus4rabbitsnpigs





It's normal for them to lose weight the first few days when switching to a pellet free diet.
4/16/2007, 7:34 am
maremma   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
maremma





Sweetepea is like this. I have been battling her bloat problem for 17 months. I can surely sympathize.

Sweetpea had bloated severely. I had to put her back down to run call the vet. I walked back in to get her to rush her down there and there she stood still eating her hay right beside Dartygirl! She pooped on me all the way to the vet.

She had bloated so severely it turned her stomache inside of itself. It was a nightmare.I was in shock and hysterical. I kept flashing back to her all hugely bloated up and hopping into the hay pan and eating like it was no big deal! I couldn't grasp how inthe world she could possibly eat at all in her condition.

The vet didn't give me much hope but was willing to do this procedure where she had to be put under to completly relax her and put a tube down her throat and get all the air out of her. She said it was 50-50 if this would allow her stomache to return to normal position and 50-50 if she would survive afterwards.. If it didn't, she only has a 5% chance of surviving the surgery to correct it. I was very blessed that it did work.

If she ever gets to much air in her it will crush her bloodflow to her organs or turn her stomache inside of itself again and of course if not discovered immediatley and the emergency air removal done whatever has the most pressure wil necrotize and then there will be no hope left. I am assuming the same for your baby.

Unfortunately withing 24 hours she began to build air again and it has been a battle ever since to keep it off of her.

What I can tell you is that you absolutely MUST keep her moving. She needs a LOT of floor time. If she just sits down somewhere when you have her out you have to find something to motivate her.

I chose a baby for Sweetpea and truly beleive that Snowangel is why I still have my beloved Sweetpea. They are very interactive in and out of the pen.Snowangel MAKES Sweetpea come out of the bed and play with her! Sweetpeas mothering instinct is stronger than her desire to lay in bed.

Simethicone daily is essential and a dose cannot be missed under any circumstances. You will have to work with her to figure out how many doses a day work for her, you must be diligent.

If you do not own a massager you need to go get one immediately. Whenever you see her beginning to get air on her get her on the massager for at least 20 minutes. If she is afraid of it work with her daily to lose her fear BEFORE she needs to sit on it for that long. Say five minutes at a time then slowly increase it till she will allow for the longer periods of time.


Keep mineral oil on hand at all times. If you ever see her poops become smaller or light in color quick give her .3 mls of the oil get her on the massager and start pushing fluids into her. After the massager session get her playing on the floor to encourage even more "tooting" and pooping.You may have to give several doses of mineral oil in a 24 hour period if she becomes contipated.

I have come to realize that if Sweetpea gets an air bubble that is to large it makes it harder for her to pass it, then it causes constipation in her and her poos begin to dry inside her only creating more trouble and gas. You MUST get those poos out of her before they cause a blockage or toxicity. The longer the food sits in their intestines the more dry they become because the intestines continue to draw water out them. This can also cause toxicity to get in ehr bloodstream because the food is "rotting" inside her and the intestines of course are going to continue to draw whatever is in there into the blood stream.

I have been very lucky in that Sweetpea seems to realize she NEEDS large amounts of water and drinks very very well for me. She also seems to know she needs a lot more hay than anyone else and I must keep literal MOUNTAINS of hay in with her at all times. If your baby does not recognizethis for herself you will need to syringethe extra fluids she needs into her every day and find ways to encourage more hay consumption.

NEVER let her have grass again. Never let her have any gassy veggies. You will need to keep a book that you record her progress with to help you be sure what does and doesn't cause more gas to build and immediately stop anything that does and use the massager fluids and extra exercise to get it off of her ASAP.
There are a lot of things Sweetpea cannot eat or we have extra problems. If it causes a problem once it will every time. Do not keep pointing the same gun at her head so to speak.

I know it sounds like a lot to keep her with you but once you find what works for her it really isn't that much and it is so well worth seeing their sweet happy faces peeking at you every day.
4/16/2007, 11:02 am
capybara   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
capybara



Supporter in '13

We have a pig who is gassy on and off. She gets simethicone when she needs it. We have also been more succesful with Cisapride/Propulsid than we were with the Metaclopromide/Reglan.

We're still having trouble finding out exactly what is causing her problems. Good luck, I hope maybe cutting out the grass will help Milly.
4/16/2007, 11:44 am
Webs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Webs
Wild and Woolly


Cavies 'n Cobwebs

My pig Sparky who is nearly 7, had gut/gas problems a while back. I found simethicone (baby's Infacol) to be helpful along with gentle tummy rubs, and she was never given metaclopramide and her appetite was never affected.

Fresh grass certainly affects Sparky with gas and sticky poop, regardless of time of year. I did wonder if other things such as cats in the garden also had anything to do with it. Sparky hasn't had bad gas problems for a while now, although sticky poop is becoming more of an issue and grass is not really on the menu any more.

Check over Milly's diet to make sure the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio is good as you may have to teak out some of the veg quantities if they are affecting the cystitis. There are links here
http://www.guinealynx.info/charts.html
http://www.litholink.com/gateway.aspx?page=OxalateDiet

I've also used Cymalon Cranberry Liquid for cystitis in my other pig, and it seems to help as she's intolerant of antibiotics. They both love barley water too which also helps in getting additional fluids in.

As pigs age, I've found with Sparky that there are some veggies that even though she loves, she just cannot have any more due to it giving her bad gas attacks. The ones with most effect are broccoli, cauliflower leaves and kale over too many days.

ETA: Sparky lost weight every time she got gassy, possibly due to thinking she's full. After the gas left, her weight went up quickly again as her appetite grew.
4/16/2007, 4:58 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





Thanks very much for all your suggestions. I feel quite mean at the moment, as Milly starts wheeking at me in the afternoons, to go out on the grass, but I'm not risking it until her present bloat has gone down.

Maremma, it was great to read the history of your Sweetpea, and to know how you help her. I'm just glad that Milly doesn't seem to have bloated quite as badly. Milly unfortunately has had cataracts in both eyes for over 3 years, and is almost blind, so she doesn't move during floor time, even with the other pigs with her. We do spread the food and hay around their cage, including the platforms, so this helps her move around more in search of her food.

I have been sitting her on a massage cushion, and this does seem to get her insides moving.

I haven't used simethicone since her first lot of bloating, but I will try starting that up again each day, and I'll keep an eye on her water consumption. She is slightly diabetic, so she normally drinks a reasonable amount, but I hadn't thought to watch that.

Capybara, I will talk to my vet about trying Cisapride/Propulsid as an alternative to Metacloprimde.

Webs, thanks for the food suggestions. I'm thinking of cutting out one or two types of veg at a time for a week or so, to see if it reduces her bloat. I have checked the Calcium to Prosphoros ratio on her current diet, so I will refer to the charts as I try adjusting her diet. I find 100% pure cranberry juice is also good for her cystitis, although I do dilute down with water slightly.
4/16/2007, 5:09 pm
Webs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Webs
Wild and Woolly


Cavies 'n Cobwebs

Do you have the Uristix to check for glucose in the urine? (you can get them in Boots) Not sure if the cranberry juice would affect things if she is diabetic.

To stop my pigs gorging themselves on any grass, rather than put them outside, I picked it and sprinkled it over a pile of hay so they have to forage more and end up eating some of the hay too.
4/17/2007, 4:33 am
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





I never thought to check her glucose levels. It was over 3 years ago when she developed cataracts rapidly that the vet tested her, and said she was slightly diabetic. It's never been a problem, but I will try and get some Uristix today. I had a quick check on the internet for cranberry juice, and it seems that it is OK for diabetics, and may actually help reduce glucose levels (in people anyway).
4/17/2007, 11:47 am
Webs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Webs
Wild and Woolly


Cavies 'n Cobwebs

Mine are called Clinistix as I have a pig that has in the past given hi glucose readings in the urine although not fully diagnosed as diabetic, no cataracts etc. So far, tweaking the diet has held it in control.

Interesting on the cranberry juice, I stopped giving it to Chilli in case it was contributing to the hi glucose levels.
4/17/2007, 11:50 am
Webs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Webs
Wild and Woolly


Cavies 'n Cobwebs

Mine are called Clinistix as I have a pig that has in the past given hi glucose readings in the urine although not fully diagnosed as diabetic, no cataracts etc. So far, tweaking the diet has held it in control.

Interesting on the cranberry juice, I stopped giving it to Chilli in case it was contributing to the hi glucose levels.
4/19/2007, 3:51 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





Well, Milly has been bloated again for the last fews days.

I've removed all the pelleted food from their cage, and replaced it with Timothy hay. She hasn't had any grass for for 2 weeks, and I've cut out broccoli and kale from their fresh food.

I've tried giving her mineral oil and putting her on the massage cushion, and she has been on Metacloprimde and Simethicone. (I haven't been able to get Cisapride, it isn't apparently available any more.)

None of this has had any obvious effect on her bloating, so I think I will have to try completely cutting out all her veggies over the weekend. I was a bit reluctant to do this, as I will have to remove the other two pigs at feeding time to give them their veggies, and Milly of course will smell the food. If this reduces her bloat, I'll then have to try introducing one veg at a time, to see if it bloats her up again, so I can try and work out what is causing the bloating.
4/19/2007, 4:54 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




I'm sorry to hear you are battling this. Bloat is tough. I do think removing vegs will likely help - at least in the short term. If it gets severe, be sure to see a vet asap.
4/20/2007, 3:43 am
maremma   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
maremma





Aww the poor baby. I feel so bad for her.

How is she drinking? Please start syringing pedyalite into her to be safe. I know when Sweetpea begins to bloat up she desprately needs a lot of extra fluid and sometimes three water bottles all over her pen aren't enough. She drinks a lot but her poops still get a bit drier thus making it harder to poo and creating even further bloat.



If you have already taken away her pellets and you take away her veggies all she will have left if hay to eat right? Or were you going to give her pellets again? Pellets do not seem to affect Sweetpea one way or the other but veggies sure can. She has a limited variety she can have and she has to have smaller amounts. I supplement her with vitamin C tabs every few days just to be certian she is still getting her C.
4/20/2007, 8:13 am
Tracy   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Tracy





I've got a piggy with recurring gas/bloat, too. We haven't figured out the cause, and haven't had great success managing it. Fortunately, Inca's episodes tend to resolve within 20-24 hours.

I always start with simethicone (harmless) and metacam (because she is obviously in pain). Once I know she's not obstructed (when feces output), I give Reglan. I also massage her belly and try to get her to move around more. We've had very heart-breaking episodes where Inca is just miserable for hours and hours and I just don't know how to help her (with my vet confirming I'm doing everything right). But she keeps pulling through, little thing. I've also tried daily Beano (which didn't seem to help) and also gripe water (for infants with colic); don't have a verdict on the latter yet (doesn't seem to help/hurt so far).

During one episode, something that possibly DID help was giving her a few drops from an acidophilpus capsule (mixed in with Critical Care), so now I wonder if Inca's gut bacteria gets imbalanced from time to time, resulting in gas/distension. That's another easy experiment you can try with your piggy.

Good luck! I'll be reading this thread hoping for any more ideas, since I need 'em, too!
4/20/2007, 3:20 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





Milly seems to be drinking enough. Her poops are fairly moist, not dry, and the vet gave me some probiotic that I have been giving her in a syringe several times a day. (They all love this probiotic, and line up at the side of the cage, wanting some!)

I wasn't going to give Milly pellets until her bloating was under control. The vet put her on a hay only diet when he kept her in for two days, with just a few extra dandelion leaves. It did reduce her bloat, which was why I was going to try this. I haven't found any dandelions in the garden yet, so I was going to give her a couple of sprigs of parsley to help with the vit C intake. It will be difficult not giving her any veggies. We've had her since she was 6 weeks old, and she's always had veggies twice a day.

She had a good session on the massage cushion yesterday evening, and didn't seem to have as much air in her this morning, but has bloated up a bit more during the day again. I'm guessing that it must be a condition similar to Irritable Bowel Syndrome in humans, and it's just a matter of finding the triggers. We seem to be able to manage the bloat, and stop it from getting too severe, it's just very difficult to get rid of it. The vet hasn't found out anything more yet, either.

I did try gripe water the first time she bloated. I'm not sure if it had much effect, but it probably won't hurt to give it another try. I think I may as well try acidophilpus capsules as well as the vets probiotic. I'm at the stage where I'll try anything that won't hurt her!
4/20/2007, 3:57 pm
maremma   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
maremma





Indeed acidophilus is very helpful to Sweetpea too. I give her a capsule in criti-care too! Good thing she LOVES criti-care. I have no trouble getting her to eat it all by herself right off a spoon.

I sure hope you find the right balance for your baby quickly. I am glad your baby likes probiotics so well . I have quite a few that think the benbac is a goody too but Sweetpea isn't one of them. Not that it matters. I have to give her the criti-care to keep some weight on her. Over this whole mess with her she lost a great deal of weight and has never regained it all. She was 2 pounds 8 ounces before she became ill. If I can keep her at 2 pounds now I am lucky.
4/20/2007, 4:34 pm
Shirl123   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Shirl123





Milly lost over an ounce in the two days she was on a hay only diet at the vets, so that's another reason that I was reluctant to cut out the veggies. She did put it back on once she was back home, so if I can only work out what causes the bloat, I'm hoping that any weight that she loses will go back again without too much trouble. I'm a bit paranoid about weight loss at the moment. My Brownie lost over 8 ounces in two weeks in January. Although we managed to stop her weight loss in the end, she didn't pull through. (We suspect it was something along the lines of a brain tumour, as she had an increasing number of fits over the last 2 days).
4/20/2007, 6:50 pm
Talishan   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Talishan
Cleaning Lady


You can quote me

No pellets and no vegetables, to me, leaves a lot of room for vitamin, mineral, and trace nutrient deficiency. I wouldn't do a hay-only diet for any length of time.

We have a senior female who gets uncomfortable (not as bad as Milly, but similar on a smaller scale) if given too large of pieces of vegetables. She inhales her food and always has. As she has aged, we've taken to giving her two or three smaller pieces of (whatever's being given out), rather than the single larger piece the others get. This seems to help her.

She doesn't eat a large amount of pellets, and they don't seem to make a difference one way or the other. What has really helped her is more, smaller, more frequent helpings of vegetables.

Good luck to Milly and to you.
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-22F = -30C
-4F = -20C
14F = -10C

32F = 0C
41F = 5C
50F = 10C
59F = 15C
68F = 20C
77F = 25C
86F = 30C
95F = 35C

98.6F = 37C
100.4F = 38C
102.2F = 39C
104.0F = 40C
105.8F = 41C
107.6F = 42C
109.4F = 43C
111.2F = 44C
113.0F = 45C
114.8F = 46C
116.6F = 47C
118.4F = 48C
120.2F = 49C
122.0F = 50C


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