Stasis questions...

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sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:17 pm


Hi Folks,

According to the xrays and the vet, Sara has stasis. She is three years old. She is not pooping very much considering what she is fed and is obviously uncomfortable.

Meds:
Simethicone .25 ml 3x/day
Bene-Bac pea size 2x/day
Cisapride .11ml 2x/day
Metoclopramide .55ml 2x/day
Metronidazole .22ml 2x/day in case of gut infection

Critical Care 18-20ml 3x/day

Questions:
Are these appropriate doses? Weight is 1125g.
Should I force CC even when nothing is coming out? X-Ray showed food sitting in her stomach. My concern is filling her up too much. She eats her fresh veggies and fresh grass.

This is the begining of her story:
http://www.guinealynx.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42400

Any other advice would be grealtly appreciated. It seems, from other postings, that most of the piggies with this problem don't fair well.

klynne

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:41 pm


I will let the math wizards who come along give you advice on the dosages--but it looks like your vet is cavy savvy, to have prescribed what he/she did.

I would have to disagree, however, on your statement about "most pigs" not faring well with stasis.

Stasis, with appropriate supportive care, is very recoverable, in my experience.

The key is identifying and resolving what caused the stasis issue in the first place.

I didn't read your other thread, but common culprits are dental issues or dietary issues. Many, many other things can be the primary cause, but these are two very common ones.

Now, on your simethicone preparation, try to use one that does not have Maltitol or Sorbitol as the sweetener--those ingredients cause gas and GI cramping.

Did her Xray show a large amount of gas? If so, she may need some pain relief. Banamine injectable is fabulous for smooth muscle and really speaks to that type of pain, if your vet will use it.

If she is maintaining her weight while she's eating on her own, I prob would only use the CC as supportive supplement. Give that Reglan (metoclopramide) a couple hours to start her stomach emptying, and try again with the CC, though.

User avatar
sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:24 pm


"I would have to disagree, however, on your statement about "most pigs" not faring well with stasis."

I'm just worried and may be paying more attention to the dismal rather than the success stories.

"I didn't read your other thread, but common culprits are dental issues or dietary issues. Many, many other things can be the primary cause, but these are two very common ones. "

Supposedly the teeth looked fine. She had been getting fresh grass all summer and with winter, it was stopped abruptly and that is the only dietary change we can put a finger on.

"Now, on your simethicone preparation, try to use one that does not have Maltitol or Sorbitol as the sweetener--those ingredients cause gas and GI cramping."

Those ingredients bother me, too! The only sweetener in the simethacone I'm using is sucrolose (splenda).

"Did her Xray show a large amount of gas? If so, she may need some pain relief. Banamine injectable is fabulous for smooth muscle and really speaks to that type of pain, if your vet will use it."

I wouldn't know what a large amount of gas is but she did get an injection of a "morphine derivitive" yesterday. I don't remember what, though.

"If she is maintaining her weight while she's eating on her own, I prob would only use the CC as supportive supplement. "

She isn't maintaining on her own... she isn't eating her pellets (Oxbow) or her Kleen Mama's timothy. Should I giver her more fresh veggies and grass? I see some postings advising against this. She is maintaining on less cc than prescribed. It's only been one day and I'm concerned that she is maintaining her weight only because it's going in and not coming out.

"Give that Reglan (metoclopramide) a couple hours to start her stomach emptying, and try again with the CC, though."

She had an injection of reglan yesterday (along with a sub q) and I started oral last night but we're still not seeing the amount we would hope to be seeing coming out.

Thank you so much for your reply!

User avatar
gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:24 pm


Wishing you better luck than we are having in resolving stasis. You can check Chutney's story on the Pig with small poops? thread. I sincerely hope that Sara makes a fast and total recovery!

User avatar
Mum
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:48 pm


Rather than feeding her 20cc 3 times a day, in this situation I would prefer to give her 10cc 6 times daily.

The smaller quantity may be easier for her to digest and should keep food continually moving through her system - which is what you want, as I understand it.

I've pulled pigs out of stasis, so it's most definitely possible.

klynne

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:50 pm


Probably Buprenex, given yesterday. Does that sound familiar?

If so, it's a good drug, and pain relief is vital, but be aware any narcotic is also going to have a side-effect of slowing GI things down further. (You may have already known that, just saying.)

It's a judgement call, on the CC, then, from what you're saying. I personally wouldn't be too aggressive with it at this point, because of the Xray showing stuff just sitting in her stomach.

But, as you know, enough has to go in, to go through. Agh. Stasis is a frustrating thing, for the caregiver, for sure. Tomorrow, if she seems to have moved some stuff thru, you can focus more on getting the CC into her.

And even when you get thru the initial crisis, fair warning, recovery is not linear, and you will see upswings and setbacks, not always in any indentifiable pattern.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:29 pm


Gently massaging her abdomen or putting her on a vibrating pillow or massager may help, if she'll tolerate it.

Keep her warm. Not overheated, of course, but warmer than you might otherwise -- i.e., if your house is usually at, say, 68 or 70 deg. F, run it up to 72 if you can. Or, give her the option of something like a Snuggle Safe disc or even a hot water bottle covered with a clean towel. Even just a clean, fluffy towel or cozy right out of the dryer might make her feel better.

User avatar
sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:37 pm


gpgrandma: Yours is, unfortunately one of the discouraging stories I referred to.

I am doing less cc than rxed. Bought the vibrating pillow and giving massages. She does have a fleece cap to lay on but will resurrect a warming "panel" that was used for a previous piggy with arthritis. She will have the option to use it.

***I guess besides the correct dosage of meds, my only other questions right now is... since she is still freely eating fresh grass and/or veggies, should I let her eat more or can that contribute to the stasis as I've seen in some postings?

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:38 pm


Is she defecating at all?

User avatar
Amy0204
We miss our sweet Oreo

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:41 pm


It takes about 24 hours for food to move through the digestive system of some pigs. Don't give up hope yet. You might not see much action until tomorrow. Also, any kind of narcotic, while relieving pain, also impacts on motility.

If there is no sign of blockage, there's no reason to restrict her from eating. That being said, some veggies can cause excessive gas. You might want to limit her to lettuces and stay away from other vegetables. What have you been feeding her? Also, when you say fresh grass, what kind? I think certain types can also cause gas.

User avatar
sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:51 pm


She is defacating but no where near normal.

We were concerned about the opiate pain reliever reducing motility but the vet talked us into it.

The veggies are the lettuces. Fresh grass is wheat, fescue, rye and blue grass.

User avatar
sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:53 pm


Bear in mind, this started after stopping the grasses, if it has any bearing on her current problems.

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sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:15 pm


One more thing, she will not drink on her own.

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gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:42 pm


sosumi-I sure hope you are on the up swing of the ups and downs. We are surely near rock bottom at this point. At least she is eatting on her own.

Wishing you all the best.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:43 pm


You can syringe water too.

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sosumi

Post   » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:59 pm


gpgrandma, it appears our piggies got sick about the same time. I think we are close to rock bottom, also. Wishing you the best as well!

lynx, we are syringing water and will add some pedialyte tomorrow.

I'd sure like to know where to find the vets that will take the pigs home with them for the weekend or give them the right massages!

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gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:50 am


Heck, I'd even take one that would just examine Chutney at this point!

Chutney just pooped 4 normal looking poops and you would think we just won the lotto here! She is now munching on some hay. I guess that this means the roller coaster is still on the tracks!

Sure hope Sara perks up quick. Chutney seemed a little bit better after 50 mg of vit C. tonight.

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gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:30 pm


How is Sara doing today?

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sosumi

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:19 pm


Sara is holding her own. We are on our way to get another x-ray to see if we have made any progress.

I believe that the article about rabbit stasis on your thread is invaluable and we are going to be instituting as much of that protocol as possible. It says fresh (certain) veggies and fresh grasses except alfalfa are a good thing so that is a relief!

We have used ground pellets as a CC substitute in the past on another piggy so that should hold Chutney until you get the CC. Make sure to print out these rabbit articles and show them to your vet when you do finally see him/her.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.pdf

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gpgrandma
Supporter in '07

Post   » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:33 pm


Glad to hear that Sara is holding her own-better than slipping down the scale. We've gotten those and other articles and referred the vet to this site as well. She was very receptive to the information and remarked about how cavy-savvy Trish was regarding the info about her pet.

Chutney is hanging in there-today seems to be a better day-eatting lettuce and hay (small amounts) and drinking on her own. No wet chin either.

She'll go back in for another eval and xray after the new year. Hope Sara's xrays show some motility and dispersing of that rotten gas!

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