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Mouth and lip sores: best way to remove scabs?
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1/31/2009, 9:33 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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I picked up a previously placed pig today because she bit her cage mate and the cage mate is afraid of her now (she was adopted last year). Before I left I checked the area where she was bitten and it is nicely healed. However, I was told about her mouth/nose and realized what it was as soon as I saw it. She appears to have a bad case of cheilitis. She has been seen by a vet who prescribed cleaning the area with hydrogen peroxide (which I suggested that she not use and why). We checked Daisy and she appears to have a milder form of the problem. Daisy is being checked in about an hour by my own vet and Angelina will be checked by my vet next Saturday. Both have been fed apples regularly but no oranges or tomatoes.

I have read the various threads on mouth and lip sores and did research on the Internet also. My question is what is the best way to remove the scabs so that there is little discomfort to the pigs? Also, which of the various treatment choices seem to be more effective if more than one option is given whether it be for either fungal or bacterial causes?

The photos below are not that good but they give an idea of the problem. Angelina is the orange/white Peruvian and Daisy is the tricolor roan Aby. I will try to get better photos while I'm at the vet and use a different camera. Before photos are shown for comparison.











1/31/2009, 9:46 pm
sus4rabbitsnpigs   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
sus4rabbitsnpigs





The treatment Barbara used is outlined in your link.

Some other users have used Otomax with success, but you need to carefully use it under oyur vet's guidance.
1/31/2009, 10:21 pm
lisam   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
lisam
plain old me




Those look pretty crusty. I've never had pigs with mouth sores like those, so I've never attempted to remove the scabs--they just came off on their own.

If it turns out to be bacterial, I imagine an antibiotic ointment or creme would be prescribed? And a fungal creme if it was fungal. However, it seems there may be a problem with them ingesting it.

Please let us know what the vets say.
1/31/2009, 11:03 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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"Those look pretty crusty. I've never had pigs with mouth sores like those"

Angelina's looks really awful. :(

Heading put to the vet now since she just called (it's 8pm). I have some of the items for the various treatments depending on the origin (bacterial vs. fungal). Will let you know more when I get back.
2/1/2009, 2:02 am
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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UPDATE: back from the vet ...

The diagnosis was cheilitis and gingivitis around the upper canines. I did bring printed items from here and elsewhere.

My vet's take on it is that the issue is that there is a underlying problem - usually poor nutrition, not enough Vitamin C, unclean quarters, poor immune system, another ailment, etc., that can set one up for the problem presented. However, this isn't the case with these two pigs since as far as I know they are well taken care of and interacted with constantly by the mother (the pigs are hers not her kids).

The vet removed hair that was wedged between her teeth and gum along with food; her canines were a bit loose. She said that there was no white growth inside the mouth (such as a yeast infection). After the teeth cleaning most of the scab was removed from the upper lip area.

I am to clean the gingiva and lips daily with diluted Nolvasan for 7-10 days. Silvadene (silver sulfadiazine) is to be applied sparingly daily for 7 days to the upper lip area. In addition, Vitamin C (liquid via a syringe) is to be given daily for 10 days and then 2 times a week. Angelina is to receive the same topical treatment: Nolvasan and Silvadene (I'll bring the meds to her tomorrow) and be checked next Saturday.

If the "hair" between the teeth or the scabs come back or the meds do not seem to cure the problem then she will be tested for candida and treated with Nystatin if necessary. She said that candida is not contagious.
3/1/2009, 1:48 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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Another update in case anyone needs the info in the future:

Daisy's mouth cleared up rather quickly (less than a week) using diluted Nolvasan first and then Silvadene applied to the upper lip and the corners of her mouth. I also withheld all veggies and fruit for awhile (they were given a lot daily; each got at least one half of an apple per day). I don't know about Angelina though. I have a call in to her caretaker for an update but I haven't heard back yet.
3/22/2009, 5:00 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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Angelina's sores got better and then they got worse so I picked her up today to see if using the treatment that I used for Daisy will make them go away. The only difference is that Angelina's condition was worse to begin with and she was fed fresh grass and bread during her treatment and Daisy was not. They were both fed a lot of veggies, 1 slice of bread each, and at least 1/2 apple per day prior to the mouth sores. The vet and I indicated that it was not recommended that they eat bread but she still did it since she felt sorry for her since she couldn't eat veggies during her treatment. The photo below was taken a few minutes ago. The treatment for Daisy was diluted Nolvasan applied topically to the scabs (but scabs not removed) and then a thin covering of Silvadene was applied.

Has anyone used Galen's Garden "Green Cream" for lip sores? If so, what were the results? Thanks.


3/22/2009, 5:55 pm
poppypiggy   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
poppypiggy





I have no advice, I just feel so sorry for the poor pig. Those scabs look painful! I hope you find an effective cure fast. And kudos to you for helping her!
3/22/2009, 6:37 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




You've seen the cheilitis page?

www.guinealynx.info/cheilitis.html (hope I spelled that right)
3/22/2009, 6:41 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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I gave Angelina a bath and a dose of Ivermectin. She previously had a hair loss/mite problem and weight loss problem in addition to the lip sores. I think the weight loss might have been due to the lip sores, not sure though. She has gained weight though and most of her hair has grown back.

The vet wants me to give her Bactrim which she was on previously; I'll ask for the dose for Metacam since she really hates having her mouth area touched and it might be quite painful. For now, I'll give her 0.1cc of the Metacam.

Yes, Lynx, I saw the page; thanks. That's how I knew that her vet misdiagnosed it and was treating the problem incorrectly. I printed it out and brought it with me to my vet appointment and asked her about Nystatin but she wanted to try the Nolvasan and treatment first. It worked very quickly for Daisy but not for Angelina.
3/22/2009, 6:56 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




Some people have had difficulty with it returning after getting rid of it. One thing may work at first then another thing may need to be tried. With the bread, I would guess a yeast infection.
3/22/2009, 7:50 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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"With the bread, I would guess a yeast infection."

Yes, basically that's what my vet said last night. The photo below shows what the two of them got daily.




And another view of her mouth ...


3/22/2009, 9:50 pm
Bytxlaura   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Bytxlaura
Piggieland Keeper


Remembering Nemo

Poor baby!
3/22/2009, 10:25 pm
salana   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
salana
Doom doom DOOM!!!


GL is Just Peachy

I wonder if a thin layer of vaseline or similar might protect the skin. Very thin, of course.
3/22/2009, 11:00 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
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"I wonder if a thin layer of vaseline or similar might protect the skin. Very thin, of course."

Good thought. I have the non-petroleum version. I wonder if it would block the healing properties of the Nolvasan/Silvadene combo; the Silvadene cream is an anti fungal/antibiotic agent. I also was wondering when I saw her again (today when I picked her up) whether to not the Nolvasan was too drying for the area around her mouth.
3/23/2009, 12:27 pm
obmckenzie   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
obmckenzie





My two boys have this and they vet was worried about the possibility of URI

I was given Bedadine(spelling?) with instructions to be very careful when applying it. Tehy took a sample to test for fungal or bacterial and I still haven't heard back. On the one its really bad and threatened to block his nose at one point, the other not so much. I put some triple antibiotic on the one and his has healed quickly. I'm going to try that on the other and hope I get the same result.

To removed the scabs I usually dip a q-tip in warm water and then gently rub their noses. Both seems to enjoy it a bit and it loosens the scabs just enought that I can remove them. They boys still cry because it hurts but usually a nice peice of their favorite food helps them forget.

I've also stepped up their Vit C intake. I bought Vit C drops (the human ones whtat are only Vit C and not the pet store stuff) I calculated the math (which was the same on the site here thank goodness) and have been giving them vit C like that for a week and it seems to help. Next week they will transition back to lots of vit c heavy foods.
3/23/2009, 3:37 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




Do read this page:
http://www.guinealynx.info/cheilitis.html

There are multiple causes.
3/23/2009, 4:39 pm
obmckenzie   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
obmckenzie





Lynx, That its a good page and I did read it. It's been linked in this little discussion quite a bit. from what I've read though the OP was asking about removing them and nobody really answered the question and since I was going through something similar I thought I'd share.

She's not the only one dealing with the problem.
3/23/2009, 8:15 pm
GuineaPigFun   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
GuineaPigFun
Account Suspended




Thanks for your feedback regarding the scabs on your two boys. With Daisy, her scabs were partially removed the day of her vet visit. The vet was checking her incisors and doing a mini-prophy on them and during the process some of the scabs fell off. Her scabs were not of the degree of Angelina's and she did not exhibit the extreme reluctance to have her mouth area touched as does Angelina.

At the moment I am giving Angelina Bactrim twice a day, Metacam once a day, liquid Vitamin C once a day, and the area around her mouth is being cleaned with diluted Nolasan followed by Silvadene cream twice a day. Last night I decided that I needed to use a restraint bag in order to try not to stress her out too much when treating her. [The photo below shows Misha in the restraint bag prior to it being secured.]


3/23/2009, 10:24 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




She looks so cute in there!
[img]http://www.guinealynx.info/pics/.jpg[/img]           ::    
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-22F = -30C
-4F = -20C
14F = -10C

32F = 0C
41F = 5C
50F = 10C
59F = 15C
68F = 20C
77F = 25C
86F = 30C
95F = 35C

98.6F = 37C
100.4F = 38C
102.2F = 39C
104.0F = 40C
105.8F = 41C
107.6F = 42C
109.4F = 43C
111.2F = 44C
113.0F = 45C
114.8F = 46C
116.6F = 47C
118.4F = 48C
120.2F = 49C
122.0F = 50C


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