Brexit - the EU referendum

Post Reply
User avatar
Jessie
Supporter in '13

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 5:18 am


It really feels like the whole world has gone mad at the moment. Everything is so political, everywhere I look.

We've got our referendum approaching. Will the UK leave the EU?

I've been struggling to make a decsion on my views based on anything other than what the EU has actually done for me.

In 2003 I enrolled on a training scheme to gain experience and qualifications as an outdoor instructor. That scheme, for over 50 young people, was fully funded by European Social fund money. Without Europe, I would have remained unemployed and unskilled.

In 2001 I found myself homeless for the third time. I was taken in by a young people's housing and support charity. Another who received funding from ESF. While there I was not only housed, but was taught life skills to ensure I would never be homeless again (I have so much to thank them for). Europe did that for me. Not our Governemnet. Europe.

I come from the North East. Newcastle upon tyne is filled with evidence of what Europe does for us. From artwork to young people's projects, to the people who have gained skills and employment as a result of funding.

I know politically these aren't fantastic motives behind a decision to stay, but I can't really base my decision on anything other than my personal experiences.

I fear we will have a government with no-one to answer to if we do leave Europe. I feel safe knowing that they have to abide by European laws, especially regarding human rights.

The UK is struggling. I fear a shift in power now will only do further damage to the people who are currently suffering.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 6:30 am


Your personal experiences are enlightening. Not knowing much about the European Union, all we hear about (or all I remember) has to do with normalizing money so it is easier to trade/visit other countries. Have you read any good articles laying out the pros and cons? Are programs like the ones that benefited you still helping others?

User avatar
Jessie
Supporter in '13

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 7:23 am


The apprenticeship scheme was a finite amount of time. There are still hundres of schemes like it running up and down the UK.

People don't tend to realise where funding comes from a lot of the time. I mean, how does a small charity find thousands of pounds to provide training and opportunities to better poeple's employability skills? Fundraising alone? The ESF is something many organisations tap in to, but not a lot of people realise just how many do, and how much people in the UK benefit from it.

It's protected money. It can't be claimed for one thing and then spent on something else. I do know of one organisation that did just that. It ended up with the charities comission getting involved, charity closure, and fraud charges being brought about.

The young people's housing charity is still going strong. They have a purpose built premesis these days. Offices, accommodation and training areas, all under one roof. The work they do is fantastic. It's not just housing. It's support, guidance, life skills, employability skills, with fantastic staff who treat the young people like humans and not a waste of space, like tends to be the case with government services. They're more about ticking boxes than having time to care.

I have seen some very well written balanced arguments behind reasons to stay. Trade. Financial. Migration. They all state their cause very well.

The arguments against are all about kicking out migrants, how much we pay into the EU pot (no mention of what we get out), and how much better it would be if the government had the however many millions or billions to spend on the people of the UK.

Currently the government are taking away from the poorest in society and giving tax breaks to the richest. It makes me worry that if they have more money at their disposal it won't be spread fairly amongst society as a whole.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 9:13 am


I don't know very much about it although I do know that the EU and the Euro has caused a lot of pain for poorer countries like Spain and Greece (and Ireland). From that point of view it has been a disaster. Since the UK isn't officially on the Euro it is different for you.

I guess if I had to make that decision I'd read everything I could from as many reputable sources as possible. Generally anything coming from the Conservative Party or the racist right-wing people would be discounted by me since their reasoning would be focused on either consolidating power and money, or racist and xenophobic ideas.

User avatar
snowflakey
E's Moriarity

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 9:22 am


I did a bit of hunting so I can read up on it (it isn't getting a lot of airtime in my circles, since of course TRUMP)

Roundup of inaccurate Brexit myths per Guardian. Good sourcing of some of the more incendiary press "inaccuracies."

Some views from far-right European leaders, and honestly, if Marine LePen wants the Brexit, I would probably vote against it. <shudder>

Guardian round-up

i generally hold the Guardian in high esteem for reasonable, non-inflammatory reporting from the left.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Thu May 19, 2016 2:04 pm


I'm pretty fond of the Guardian too.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri May 20, 2016 2:33 pm


In my experience the Telegraph reports the conservative side reasonably fairly, if you want a balance of both. Plus they have some very snarky writers I enjoy. ;-)

My $0.02: vote on your personal experience. Why?

What is a country? A bunch of individuals. Each's experience, hopes, dreams, successes, failures, pasts and futures is what makes the country up, essentially -- nothing more objective, inanimate, or clinical or dispassionate than that.

The EU helped you enormously. In my opinion (only!!) -- vote to reflect that. Because if they helped you, they helped a lot of others, and in the end -- that's what policy is.

SardonicSmile

Post   » Fri May 20, 2016 2:50 pm


Such a major decision because if it comes to a Brexit more countries might decide to get out.

Part of me wants the Brexit to happen just because the stir it will create. The EU is a money eating monster and it needs to change or go down. A good start would be to no longer pack up everything and move the whole shebang to France every month.

SardonicSmile

Post   » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:16 pm


A little over a week and we will know!

I will be following the vote.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:05 pm


I will be very interested in how this turns out!

8ball

Post   » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:54 am


So sad for Jo Cox and her family and how this is already being used as extra political ammunition.

User avatar
Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:20 am



SardonicSmile

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:44 am


Brexit is happening...

So much uncertainty, but also possibilities.


I wish the British all the best!

User avatar
NoCableisSafe

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:04 am


I'm so disappointed.

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:49 am


Will you now take another go at independence, and remaining in the EU yourselves?

One thing in particular bothers me from all I have read, pro and con, and that's that the Brussels lawmakers, policy formers and regulation writers are unelected. That'd be like if in the US, state governments were democratically elected and had some impact on the lives of the residents, but other laws and their effects would come from a federal government over which the people had no control whatsoever. That strikes me as very wrong.

There will be difficulties, no doubt. There would have been difficulties either way. We in the States stand ready to help ... at least I know I do. Let us know how we can help if needed.

User avatar
Webs
Cavies 'n Cobwebs

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:15 am


We are screwed. Too important a decision to be left to the masses jumping on immigration.

We are out on a limb as the UK and even more so if independence rears it's head again, doubly screwed.

Years of trade squabbling, the EU will not let it be seen that the UK can be better off out otherwise the other EU countries will try it too. EU subsidies are the only thing keeping farming alive in this country and that's only one thing.

I'm gutted, there were negatives but when you really looked into it, we had more benefits with being in.

User avatar
Jaycey
Supporter in 2014

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:31 am


The Scottish will go for independence again, and I don't blame them, they voted approx 65% in compared to 48% overall.

I'm sad for the result, but I can also understand why they won.

The whole thing has been nothing but a mess, total scaremongering and not giving the right facts, from either side.

I know a few people who have voted out, and the reason was 100% immigration. That's the biggest thing that has been mentioned by the out side and the thing they physically see most on the street. They're afraid for our country and their futures.

It's the fault of the remain side for not stressing the correct figures to them.

I'm really sad and wish we could start this all over again.

I was chatting to my hairdresser about it, and she said, and I agree, that it's totally the wrong decision to let the population of the UK vote. We don't know enough, and that's been proved today.

User avatar
Jessie
Supporter in '13

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:45 am


I have just burst into tears at the lady in the corner shop as I was discussing the verdict. If I were a child today, growing up with the life I've had, I wouldn't turn out anything like I have done.

The EU pretty much saved me. When my family had let me down. When social sevices had let me down. I was alone, homeless, with mental health problems that weren't getting any better. The services that saved my life were only there because of the ESF.

Someone on my facebook has just quoted their 9 year old child, saying before the EU England ruled the world and owned most of the world. Our grandparents remember post war england. We only learn about it from museums and history lessons, and maybe a trip to Eden camp to walk through the blitz sheds (would be virtual reality today).

I have a friend in Germany who is now terrified of what her future holds. She left England to go to Germany. She didn't even speak German but she took a leap. ESF funding gave her a new language, employability skills, financial assistance, and eventually a new direction in life which she is loving.

Lots of people are jumping on the Great Britain bandwagon. I am sorry but we weren't great when we were at war. We weren't great when our country was surviving on rations. We are certainly not great with a PM who has liasons with pigs.

SardonicSmile

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:45 am


The EU as it is now has to change, I am rooting for the UK to make this independence count. It will be difficult, but I don't think it is an impossible mountain to climb.

If the UK succeeds, more countries can (and probably will) follow.

User avatar
Jessie
Supporter in '13

Post   » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:21 am


Well, what a morning. I'm actually watching the news.

Cameroon has put in his resignation.

Corbyn has had a vote of no confidence.

The £ is dropping.

It's like waking up to the apocalypse. It's all a bit surreal.

Post Reply
154 posts