barbells

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Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 8:50 pm


Tell me this isn't happening.

A large female pig, Phyllis, transferred to me from Fenella's rescue, appears to have barbells under her chin. I was taking her picture and found them. She lives with 3 other pigs, none of whom have any lumps.

The strange thing is, I have hardly handled her and she is in a separate room (across the hall) from the pigs with Cervical Lymphadenitis. The pig with lanced abscesses is downstairs. Every time I go near these pigs, I spray bleach on my hands and arms and then wash in antibacterial soap.

She is in the room with the healthy pigs. 13 of them.

Has anyone ever seen fatty lipomas on the chin/throat area?

The vet can't see us until next Thursday. The lumps are each the size of a small marble.

What do I do? I can't think.

Put her in another room?

Aspirate the lumps or leave them alone? What if they burst before Thursday?

Put her on Baytril, obviously.

Put everyone else in the room on Baytril?

4 of the pigs in the room are going to meet a potential adopter on Monday. Cancel that?

Does this thing spread that easily?

Kill myself, or wait until after they all come down with CL?

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Lynx
RESIST

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:15 pm


I'm so sorry. You don't need this. You just don't need any of this at all.

Write Josephine.

Here's what VC Richardson has to say about cervical lymphadenitis:

Treatment: If possible, the lumps should be removed surgically. If this is not an option the abscesses should be lanced and flushed with chlorhexidine. Antibiotics should be given, either enrofloxacin[baytril] or cephalexin [note, we don't recommend this drug]. Recurrence is common as the treated animal may become a carrier.

Guess it is usually streptococcus zooepidemicus as the causative bacteria. May also be streptococcus moniliformis, fusiformis and pasteurella spp.

Says the first bacteria is normally present in the conjuctiva and nasal passsages of gps. Abrasions from hay etc. in mouth or UR tract can be come infected. "As the material from discharging abscesses is highly contagious the affected animal should be isolated for treatment."

Evangeline

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:17 pm


Oh shit.

Paisley

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:22 pm


Definitely isolate her.

Lynx covered all the other information that I could have given you from my "Diseases of Domestic Guinea Pigs" by Richardson.

Do you have coveralls and plastic coverings for your shoes that you can use for your isolation cases?

Evangeline

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:29 pm


Chary, can you email Vicki from JPGPG abotu this? Put something that catches her attention in the title. I usually go for "Pinta is an asshole!" if I need a quick reply. Yes, yes, I'm serious. She gets a millione mails a day and this can't wait.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:50 pm


I emailed Vicki. Now I am going to move that sow, put everyone on Baytril (if I have enough), and try to do some more research to see if this can be airborne. So far we can't find out. Charandmin and Knoeddelmeister are coming over tomorrow to help disinfect all the cages. Since Monday is a holiday, I can't call Dr. K until Tuesday. May run out of AB before then. We need to get a cytology done on this sow.

I don't know how this can be happening. This is a bad dream, right? I really want to get drunk right now.

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charandmin

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:53 pm


Chary is really freaking out about this...I'm border line myself.

The current plan of attack as I know it is.

1. Separate Phyllis from the healthy pigs.
2. Start everyone on Baytril
3. Disinfect and clean cages
4. Take Phyllis to vet ASAP (not the vet that isn't there until Thursday) and get a proper diagnosis of the lumps, which was not done with the first pig.
5. Develop new plan of attack based on Phyllis' diagnosis.

Someone is picking up gloves etc for cage cleaning tomorrow.

Elizabeth

Post at same time...funny.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:54 pm


If I understood correctly, they are not contagious until they burst or get removed surgically. Maybe I'm thinking of something else, but I thought it was CL that needs contact to spread?

Paisley

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 9:58 pm


Transmission methods of CL taken from:
http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/notes/diseaseslabrodents.htm

Cervical Lymphadenitis (Lumps)

Streptococcus zooepidemicus has been isolated from the majority of affected animals. Bite wounds or respiratory aerosols are the major vehicles for transmission. Aerosolized organisms may invade conjunctival, genital, and oral mucosal surfaces. The organism probably exists as a normal inhabitant of the upper respiratory tract and produces an opportunistic infection in injured mucosal surfaces. The organism initially infects cervical lymph nodes, which become enlarged and develop abscesses. Abscesses may spontaneously rupture with time. Affected animals may show no other signs except nonspecific symptoms of pyrexia or anorexia immediately prior to rupture. Other regional lymph nodes or, rarely, the middle ear and respiratory passages may become involved. Diagnosis is based on clinical presentation and culture of the organism from lesions. Spread of the organism through a colony can be controlled by culling or isolating affected animals prior to lymph node rupture. Limiting the amount of coarse feed may aid in decreasing the incidence.

Paisley

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:01 pm


Found at:
http://www.afip.org/vetpath/POLA/99/1999-POLA-Cavia.htm
Cervical Lymphadenitis (Streptococcus zooepidemicus) - beta-hemolytic, G+, encapsulated, Lancefield Group C. Asymptomatic inhabitant of the upper respiratory tract-Transmission through skin wounds,bite wounds,  aerosol or genital.  Oral cavity abrasions caused by coarse plant feeds and conjunctiva are commonly implicated.  After penetration, the organism drains to the local lymph nodes. 

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:06 pm


forgive me for being dense, but does this mean that CL is airborne? How could I not know this?

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:12 pm


>>Spread of the organism through a colony can be controlled by culling or isolating affected animals prior to lymph node rupture.>>

Prior to lymph node rupture. I understand the part about aerosolized, but I believe that is AFTER the abscesses rupture.

I'm probably wrong, I just remember having a very detailed discussion about this not that long ago.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:17 pm


Yes we did discuss this in the dumpster pigs thread. But the possibility of it being airborne (and also the thing about pigs being carriers) wasn't in the discussion. My vet didn't mention either of these things. I understood that it was spread by contact and curable.

The downstairs pig (Sebastian) has had his lumps aspirated.

We are facing some horrible decisions right now. Volunteers are panicking. Some of their pigs were in contact with these pigs. I have a feeling all hell is about to break loose. I can't even move from this chair.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:19 pm


Don't panic until you need to. I don't remember airborne being a possibility either, until the damn things were ruptured or opened.

Deep breath.

Remember, you don't even have a diagnosis yet.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:21 pm


Did you get my email?

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:23 pm


The only thing we don't know is the type of organism.

We do know that it is an infection of the lymph nodes. We do know that it was brought in by the dumpster pigs. Sebastian was separated from those boys about 2 weeks ago, but a couple of them are just now starting to show symptoms.

I emailed Josephine and Fenella (to see if she noticed the lumps before she sent the sow to us).

I also cancelled the adoptions and sent the adopters elsewhere.

kleenmama
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:26 pm


Are there any other lymph nodes affected? Pebbles had huge lymph nodes under her arms, under her neck ,and a couple in her groin. Not CL.

Go feel up the pig and see if the nodes right behind her little armpits are swollen.

Evangeline

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:29 pm


Ok, it's probably me who is stupid, but I was convinced it was airborn as soon as the abcess was opened. No? Sebastian's was opened, no? So that would send contageous particules into the air, getting to Phyllis. No?

Don't panic just yet, I might very well be wrong about this. It's just what I sorta kinda remembered, so don't quote me on this.

Paisley

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:29 pm


Charybdis,

I've tried to find out whether transmission by aerosol is before or after the lymph absesses burst but I haven't found the answer to that question. I'm really sorry...

I'll search a little more but I'll have to get off the computer soon.

Charybdis

Post   » Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:34 pm


It doesn't really matter. If Sebastian's CL got upstairs somehow (air conditioner?) then the possibility is that all the pigs have it.

KM, yes I got your email and replied. Thank you.

I felt her armpits. No swellings there. None of the dumpster pigs have swollen armpits either, just around the throat and jaw.

If I had known that this was airborne, there is no way that those dumpster pigs would even be in my house.

Itchy and Scratchy are up there too.

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