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Charybdis

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:29 am


Hello all. I am dragging myself around a wee bit better today. Kim came over this a.m. with veggies for the pigs. Amy and Peter cleaned my living room behind my back and then took on the awesome task of medicating 30 pigs. Amy learned how to do SQ and Peter gave an injection. Then we trussed up Itchy and Scratchy. Thank God for volunteers.

And now the update:

Phyllis' lumps are getting worse. One is big marble size now and its neighbor is little marble size. She is still eating, though. Fenella has offered 50% of her surgical costs (she was Fenella's pig recently transferred up here) so we will probably go ahead with having her cysts removed entirely and then moving her into my downstairs bathroom IF the vet doesn't think that she will be a danger to the other pigs.

Rowan, the not lilac himi of the dumpster pigs, is not going to fare as well, I'm afraid. His lump is getting bigger by the hour. I think it's in danger of bursting and we can't let that happen for sure. The other pig's lump seems about the same.

7 dumpster pigs with CL=7 possible surgeries=2100$ and 7x more risk of contagion. And we still don't know what to do with Sebastian downstairs.

I'll be consulting with different vets in the a.m. Given the rate and type of transmission, we are so afraid of infecting the other 30 pigs in the household. I'll have to get the vet's input on whether or not we can determine carrier status. But it doesn't look good for any of them.

Frightening thought number 1: It was my vet who instructed me to aspirate Sebastian's lumps at home. Why didn't he know that it could be airborne?

Frightening thought number 2: Somewhere out there is someone selling himis and satins with cervical lymphadenitis.

Robyn3939
Lethal Lover

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:34 am


Oh my gosh, this is getting sadder and sadder. I am so sorry Chary. Please keep yourself healthy. It sounds like you have a lot of good friends willing to help when needed.

ChunkyPiggies

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:39 am


*sigh*

Up to SEVEN now? That's really scary. I took a shower right when I got home, but I did pass by the pig cages. I think I'll wipe myself with alcohol before touching anyone.

What exactly is the fatality rate for CL? If my pigs catch it, as long as they survive, it wont be so bad. I don't plan on getting more pigs anyways. 4-5 is enough.

Well, let me know if I can help in some way. I think Dr R effed up again. :( Take his plaque back.

And go back to bed, sitting down is not good for you. Did you like the food ok? Get some rest and take care of yourself please.

Charybdis

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:21 am


Not sitting down. Lying on the floor. The noodles were great! Thank your mom for me.

Only 3 dumpster pigs with obvious symptoms. 7 dumpster pigs total. Maybe no one else will develop lumps, but they all live together.

I am going back to bed soon. Had to get up to talk to the board. Everyone's scared and worried.

From what I can find, incubation is 3 to 14 days. Mortality is 10%. I'm reading a French report mais je ne suis pas courrant.

Maybe E can translate this one phrase I can't get:

Les animaux guéris peuvent rester porteurs du germe, notamment au niveau des poches gutturales et la durée du portage peut excéder 8 mois.

ChunkyPiggies

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:30 am


Let me know which vet you get in the morning. I hope it's all just a big scare.

Paisley

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 6:57 am


I hope your hip starts feeling better soon, Charybdis.

Thanks for the update.

I had that same frightening thought, too, re: someone out there may be selling himis and satins with Cervical Lymphadenitis (CL).

Another thought had also occurred to me - perhaps CL is the reason why those pigs were dumped in the first place. The person may have known that they were exposed to CL and didn't want to be bothered treating them, etc.

If I come across any more information that I feel may help, I'll post it, okay?

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:22 am


Chary, sending positive thoughts your way. I am totally unfamiliar with this disease you're dealing with but it sounds really scary. I just wanted you to know that I GREATLY admire what you're doing and you're an amazingly dedicated friend of guinea pigs... I hope that your volunteer support network hangs in there, too - you surely need them! Try to take care of yourself as you won't be able to help the piggies if you're out of commission.

On behalf of pigs everywhere, thank you.

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Paravati
I GAVE, dammit!

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:04 am


Chary, the best I can do with that french translation is that the cured animals can be carriers of the germ, in particular around the "poches gutturales" (???), and can exceed 8 months. I'm sure E can do better than that. Jeez, what a sucky situation.

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pigluvver

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:33 am


I've only just managed to get round to reading this thread - what a nightmare. I wish I lived closer than the other side of the world and could help, I'm no vet but I am pretty much expert at shovelling pig sh*t.

My translation is much the same as yours Para, - "The cured animals can remain carrying the germ, in particular on the level of the pockets gutturales and the duration of the bearing can exceed 8 months"

Guttural pockets, I would assume to be a cavity in the voicebox and/or throat area since guttural usually refers to a throaty noise?

I hope things improve.

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:34 am


Chary, re: your French information, to add on to what Paravati said:

HORSES have guttural pouches. They are large "blind pockets" in their heads. I have NO IDEA if guineas also have them - hopefully someone else does. Was your article about the disease as it occurs in horses?

In horses, I know guttural pouches are immediately suspect in any kind of draining infection w/ pus that shows up in the nasal area. Whatever infection there is must be agressively treated with antibiotics, as like the inner ear, they are lovely breeding grounds for bugs.

I will not venture to say anything else as I have no exact medical reference to point to, I'm just going by what I remember reading in the past. But first we ought to determine if guineas even have guttural pouches! Anyone with an anatomy text?

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:41 am


Pigluvver, you posted while I was typing. Horses' guttural pockets are definitely in their skull, so I would presume if pigs have them, they're in that area as well.

Paisley

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:09 pm


I found some information on guttural pouches at:
http://barrelhorses.horsecity.com/stories/081103/hea_gutteral_WH.shtml

The article was written by Dr. Dwight G. Bennett.
Guttural pouches are outpouchings of the eustachian tubes. Only equines have guttural pouches, but all mammals have eustachian tubes. Eustachian tubes extend from the inner surface of each eardrum to the pharynx (the place where the nasal passages and mouth join). These tubes serve the vital function of regulating the pressure on the eardrums.

Paisley

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:14 pm


From the same link I listed above:
Every time an animal swallows, the eustachian tube opens, allowing any bacteria in the nose or mouth a free passage to the middle ear.
Last edited by Paisley on Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:15 pm


Paisley, I was hoping you'd show up because I knew you could find out. So now we know pigs don't have them... just regular eustachian tubes. Hopefully this is good news for Chary's pigs.

P.S. My family, esp. my son who has gone thru two sets of implanted "ear tubes," could certainly use larger eustachian tubes. Ours are a poor design!

Paisley

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:18 pm


I have to make lunch now for the children but I'll see if I can find out more later.

InkysMom,
My husband had to have tubes placed in his ears, too, when he was younger as his ears didn't drain properly.

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:23 pm


In your house that's a 2-hour project, eh? PB and J for all!!!

Just had an interesting thought, since I was thinking about horses: This CL disease sounds an awful lot like strangles. I wonder if it's same thing, and Cervical Lymphadenitis is the scientific name for it? I'm going to check.

Charybdis

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:27 pm


Yes I had them too. Twice. That plus a lifetime of ear infections makes my ears full of scar tissue. I believe right after I had my ears done they started doing them with laser, a much more effective technique.

Yes, that was an equine report. I couldn't find anything under guinea pigs + CL + carriers, except that they "may become" carriers. So I was looking to see if other animals affected by S. zoo became carriers.

I think I will have to take a trip to the library and pore through some veterinary journals.

Inky, I think "cervical lymphadenitis" just means "swellings of the lymph nodes in the neck area." The actual disease we're looking at is Streptococcus Zooepidemicus, or else Pasteurella.

InkysMom

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:54 pm


Chary, after reading up on strangles, obviously you're right. Strangles does cause cervical lymphadenitis but is not called that, and the bug in question is Strep. Equi, an equine-specific organism (should have checked back in your thread for name of S. Zoo).

For what it's worth, here's the article I read about strangles, since the diseases do seem to have a very similar progression:

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_strangles.htm

I know you already know the goop from burst/lanced abcesses is the worst carrier. I especially thought it was interesting that it says nothing about S. Equi being airborne-transmittable... Also, it seems like a good thing in the sick horses if the abcesses burst or are lanced.

Like I said, I understand that it's a totally different bug that's making your poor little ones sick but thought maybe the info. could be useful.

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Pigglies

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:49 pm


So are they only a carrier for a certain time period, instead of their lifetime?

If they'd be a carrier forever, depending on how they could transmit it... that could be a very bad thing and not worth surgery for any of them if they'd still be a carrier after surgery.

Paisley

Post   » Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:30 pm


In your house that's a 2-hour project, eh?
Tell me about it, InkysMom! LOL! I got done with lunch, cleaned the pigs' cage, checked the mail and I'm now checking back on GL for a few moments to see if there were any new developments. In about 15 minutes, I'll have to start supper!

By the way, you wouldn't want to see my house near a meal time. It becomes a true zoo! I've never seen children who act like they've never, ever seen food before. Sheesh! I should have kept the magnet my parents gave me while at CU. It said "Welcome to the zoo!" That fits this household in more ways than one, that is for sure! LOL!
Last edited by Paisley on Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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