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SEEKING ADVICE ON DIARRHEA
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1/3/2002, 9:16 am
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





My guniea pig is now 3 years old. She first suffered from Diarrhea about 3 weeks ago. I brought her to my vet. She was given baytril (0.2 mm dosage twice a day) for a week. However, 2 days later, the diarrhea became fluid. She was treated with Baytril again for a few more days. Now, she was on Baytril again when the diarrhea became fluid again after the second treatment.

She was alright when she was on Baytril but not when off. I am very worried and would like to have the advice from the piggy lover on how to handle the little creature.

Kindly please help!

Alison
1/3/2002, 9:38 am
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




I´m just checking things in a reference I have. I don´t have any personal experience with diarrhea.

If it is bacterial enteritis, the baytril would have helped. Another drug is a trimethoprim sulfa combination (30mg/kg PO q12). They recommend using either of these drugs on rabbits (I imagine the advice would be similar for guinea pigs) until a culture and sensitivity tests are obtained.

It could be there is more than one bacteria at work and the baytril slows down but does not eliminate the one that is recurring. They mention E. coli as most likely.

I´ll keep reading to see if I can find anything out. Did your vet do a stool sample to check for parasites and disease organisms?


What was the baytril dose your vet was giving? It could be it is not enough to knock it out but only control it. Some people have problems with baytril though -- and will stop eating.


Pinta has recommended feeding a poop from a healthy pig. The best ones would be the cecal pellets that are reingested for their nutrients.

Kaopectate, according to Squeak´s Page, can be used. She mentioned Bismuth being helpful (1cc 4 times a day for a 2 pound pig) and if it is extremely serious, flagyl (Metronidazole) works extremely well.

Diarrhea is dehydrating. Make sure she gets lots of fluid. A hydration subcue treatment from the vet can help if it is serious.
"Unflavoured pedialyte is excellent. It remains fresh for only about 48 hours. I freeze the leftovers in ice cube trays. (Hopefully, the electrolytes aren´t affected by freezing.) About 60cc fluid daily is necessary to maintain an adult pig. "


Edited by Lynx on 3/9/2002, 4:05 pm
1/3/2002, 4:14 pm
pinta   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
pinta
Evil and Dreaded




If the diarrhea has been going on for that long, I would consider having a sample cultured. Giardia(sp?), a waterborne parasite, causes diarrhea. It is picked up from contaminated water supplies. Unwashed lettuce could carry it. There are other parasites that can cause diarrhea too. Flagyl is the standard treatment for Giardia. (I believe it is an antibiotic.) We will often give Flagyl for extreme diarrhea without doing a culture, mostly because we can´t afford the time delay. And unfortunately, cultures can be hit and miss with Giardia, as I remember it. (I think it could take a few samples to find the parasite, not unlike diagnosis of mites taking several skin scrapings). It was a long time ago that we had our giardia outbreak, so I´m going by memory here.

Diarrhea can cause dehydration. A hydration subcue treatment can be very helpful. Unflavoured pedialyte is recommended for syringing

The info below is from Tex Green, Guinea Pigs Online. It was in regards to a different pig but the
info might be useful. People are free to contact him, if they need clarification or
have more questions tex@cavyinfo.com

Get your
piggie to an experienced exotics vet as soon as you can! Diarrhea can be
fatal if it is not diagnosed and treated properly.

What form is the diarrhea taking? Is it just soft droppings, a watery mess,
or a black, foul-smelling watery mess? If it is the last, you need to get
her to a vet *immediately*, as it indicates a very serious intestinal
problem (it can be caused by a number of things: antibiotics, eating
spoiled [moldy] hay or vegetables).

If it is a milder case of diarrhea, and you piggie is still eating,
withhold all greens, and give plenty of hay. In addition, an electrolyte
replacer such as Pedialyte given by dropper can help (Gatorade can be used
as well; the sugar is not good for her, but you need to get fluids into
her). There is some kind of imbalance in her intestinal system; the
beneficial bacteria have been disrupted. Acidophillus powder (found in
health food stores) or a cc of yogurt (with "live cultures") should be
given to help the digestive tract. There is also a product called
"Bene-bac" that I have used with some success (it´s available in larger pet
stores, at the vet and at some online pet supply vendors). The best thing
to use is a crushed-up dropping or two from a healthy piggie. Yes, it
sounds gross, but it is natural for guinea pigs. Guinea pigs re-ingest
certain droppings (called "coprophagy") to keep their digestive systems
healthy, as well as gain some nutrients that are produced in the cecum.
Although a "plain" dropping is not what a piggie would normally ingest, it
is certainly better than what the sick piggie has available.

What I normally do for a piggie with diarrhea is make a "mash mix", using a
dollop of yogurt, a crushed dropping, some powdered food pellets and enough
Pedilyte to make it into a mash that can be drawn into an oral syringe.
(The total amount should only be about 5cc or so, as they usually don´t
like the taste of it). If you can get your vet to approve the use of
Oxbow´s Critical Care formula (have him call 1-800-249-0366), mix the
powder with some Pedialyte and either crushed dropping or Acidophillus
powder, and administer by syringe. The Critical Care is quite tasty; every
piggie I´ve had to use it with loves it (a much better time is had by
all!). Do this at least three times a day (along with regular food and
water), and try and get water or Pedialyte into her as often as possible.

The suggestions I´ve made should only be undertaken after you´ve spoken
with a competent vet; they are not "in place of" a vet visit.

Please e-mail me any time if you have questions or concerns, and keep us
updated on your piggie´s progress.

Tex


Edited by pinta on 1/3/2002, 4:16 pm
1/4/2002, 11:01 am
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





Thanks very much for the message posted from both Lynx and Pinta. Glad to have advice from you as I am very inexperienced in dealing with my hairy creature.

I have made an appointment with my vet early tomorrow morning. I will ask the vet to do a stool sample and see if that help.

I read Baytril oral 2.5% from the medicine bottle. I give 0.2 mm / dosage to my guniea pig twice a day.

I am not familiar with the terms like cecal pallet, Kaopectate, Bismuth, flagyl... Shall I discuss with my vet and see what is the optimal solution to my pig.

For the treatment to Giardia, my friend mention something like "Pencly...(spelling???)". Have you ever heard anything about this?

Looking forward to hearing your advice.

Thanks very much.

Alison
1/4/2002, 2:57 pm
pinta   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
pinta
Evil and Dreaded




Lordy. NO PENICILLIN. Toxic to pigs. Click on the coloured bands at the top of the page that say dangerous and safe medications. Print the info off and give to your vet. In fact, check out the whole of the Guinea Lynx med site for more medical info.

Flagyl is a drug (metronidazole). Cecal pellets is poop. Kaopectate ia a standard brand of over-the-counter indigestion/diarrhea aid(don´t have a bottle to look at but I´m pretty sure that´s what it´s for). Bismuth is the pink stuff that is in those over-the-counter indigestion preparations(pretty sure anyway). You could probably do a search on Google http://www.google.com/ for more info.

Print this page out and show it to your vet.
1/5/2002, 1:12 pm
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





No evidence that the piggy is suffered from Giadia. My vet explained the result might be affected because the pig is on medication. He suggest me to continue with Baytril for another week and see if Diarrhea starts again.

On the other hand, I have followed Tex´s advice and give the pig a slice of banana, acidophillus (2 hrs after the antibiotic) on top of the Critical Care. Tex has given me a lot of advices. I will try to do things slowly.

I will update the situation of my pig soon.

Thanks for the assistance.
1/5/2002, 5:12 pm
pinta   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
pinta
Evil and Dreaded




CAUSE OF INTERMITTENT SOFT STOOLS IN RABBITS(ISS)

http://www.vin.com/PetCare/Articles/VetHospital/M01061.htm


This is worth reading. I picked it up from a post by Rosalee at Cavy Madness.
1/7/2002, 9:44 am
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





I have read the article. However, I believe BB suffers from real diarrhea rather than ISS.

Now, I also suspect the long intake of anti-biotics distroy the beneficial intestinal flora which therefore induce diarrhea. At the moment, I give BB 0.2mm Baytril / dosage twice a day. Two hours after each dosage, I will give BB a quarter tablet of acidophillus and 25 - 30 cc Critical care (1:3 mix). Is this Okay? Please let me have your advice. Thanks very much.
1/7/2002, 2:24 pm
pinta   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
pinta
Evil and Dreaded




Do you have another pig? The best way to replace the healthy flora is by giving him a poop from a healthy pig. Mash up in water and syringe down.

** Nature has a better way! Poop from a healthy guinea pig is the best probiotic ever! I take one "pellet" and mix it with water and feed it by syringe. It sounds nasty but it has saved more pigs than I can count. Any time I have a pig with any sort of intestinal upset I do this. It is known as "re-seeding the gut flora". There are other names for it too. The beauty of it is that the poop has a special chemical in it that keeps it from being digested in the stomach so it makes it down to the colon, where the problem occurs. - Sharlene Scheffer (sp?) RVT

You can´t go wrong with Critical Care and the acidophilus can´t hurt but a poop would be optimum.

The last time we had a diarrhea case from antibiotics, we put the pig on Flagyl, 25mg twice a day for 7 days. It cleared up nicely and didn´t return.

[reformatting - Lynx]
1/8/2002, 6:57 am
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





I have a healthy pig. I will try the ´poop´ solution tonight.

BB drinks a lot of water - around 100 ml more than ever before. Is it because of the anti-biotics? Is that normal?

I read from some article over the web that the piggy usually lose appetite when on anti-biotics. However, there is minimal influence on my piggy. Is that normal?

Today is the fifth day of the 4th round of Baytril. Her droppings are still soft, but in good shape (solid), not smelly. Is that Okay?

I will stop the Baytril on Friday. I start to worry about BB after that.
1/8/2002, 8:02 am
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




I didn´t think they usually lost their appetite, just that it happened for some (for me one pig did on Baytril). By the way, the special poops that are reinjested are probably the best but they might be hard to get. I am guessing that most poops have some of the best bacteria on the outside of the droppings we see -- especially right after they come out and when they are nice and shiny.
1/9/2002, 1:16 am
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





Not much problem for me to collect the ´fresh´ poop. My biggest problem is to force feed BB the mixture. It´s the most difficult part of job. I mix it with Critical Care. Do you have any recommendation? How to make it more tasty to my hairy creature?

Moreover, do you provide pallet and other treats when giving the ´poop´. At the moment, I offer Oxbow pallet, Timothy Hay, Critical Care and Acidophillus.

Last but not the least, we are getting a short supply on Oxbow pallet. Shall I change to American Pet Dinner or Mazuri for my pigs?
1/9/2002, 7:55 am
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




My guess is the special poops are tastier -- I´ve heard people report pigs following other pigs around and eating snacks. Mix with fruit? Concentrated OJ? I guess you´ll need to experiment. Good luck.
1/9/2002, 3:51 pm
Evangeline   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Evangeline
Queen of the Damned




I´m not sure I´m getting this right, but the Baytril course is just 6 days? It seems very short and that might explain why the bacteria/virus is not destroyed completely before you take BB off the antibiotics. Some bugs are hard to kill. When I rescued a baby rabbit infected with staphylococcus, he was on Baytril for over a month.

So did the vet do the culture, after all? Results?

I agree with Pinta, Flagyl sounds like a good option, since the Baytril seems to be just a temporary fix. Just so you can get all those names in line, Flagyl is an antibiotic used in the treatment of Inflammatory Bowel Disease, colitis and Crohn´s disease.
1/9/2002, 7:38 pm
Alison   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alison





I will stop the Baytril tomorrow and will keep an eye on the condition of BB.

I will take BB to the vet on Saturday morning. If the diarrhea returns, I will ask the vet to do the culture / flotation test, etc. and take the appropriate action.

By the way, how long I should continue with the poop. It is extremely awful to me and BB.

I have attached the photo of my babies for your interest. (BB on the left and Fatty on the right.)



1/9/2002, 7:47 pm
Jill   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Jill
IAMPM




BB looks just like our little Zelda who died in August. She was soooooo soft. Hope BB is feeling better soon.
1/9/2002, 7:49 pm
Evangeline   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Evangeline
Queen of the Damned




Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Beautiful pigs.
1/9/2002, 8:22 pm
Alfie   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Alfie
Grammar Governor




They´re gorgeous! Are they related?
1/9/2002, 9:43 pm
ShowMe   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
ShowMe





Beautiful piggies! Hope BB gets well soon.

BTW, I am my pigs mom, I just LOVE the quote on your posts. I think you should have that poem framed!
1/9/2002, 10:57 pm
Lynx   Link to Post Go to the top of this page  
Lynx
Heartless Dictator




What gorgeous piggies!!! I hated dolls as a kid but all I can think about is that marvelous hair!!! Wouldn´t they be fun to brush and comb? Sweet little Barbie Piggies? (they remind me of the My Little Ponies my daughter had as a kid)

If the poops thing isn´t working out too well for you, make it just a very little bit of poop from the outside (from a fresh one -- more likely to have beneficial bacteria). Something is better than nothing. It can be murder to fight with an uncooperative pig.
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-22F = -30C
-4F = -20C
14F = -10C

32F = 0C
41F = 5C
50F = 10C
59F = 15C
68F = 20C
77F = 25C
86F = 30C
95F = 35C

98.6F = 37C
100.4F = 38C
102.2F = 39C
104.0F = 40C
105.8F = 41C
107.6F = 42C
109.4F = 43C
111.2F = 44C
113.0F = 45C
114.8F = 46C
116.6F = 47C
118.4F = 48C
120.2F = 49C
122.0F = 50C
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