What the Hell? (or, Tump's Descent into Madness)

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Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:57 pm


I read somewhere that trump's supporters may not believe what he says, but they still believe in hi. Now how is that?? I really do think it's a cult - blind devotion to the jerk.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:20 am



GPIG

Post   » Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:42 am


Why must Christians be blamed for what's going on? A black man put a gun in a police car last night and shot the cops inside. That seems to be a legitimate tactic. The movement is losing ground quickly. If everyone stopped talking, showing off the maybe 2 dozen guns they own collectively and how they will use them to get "justice" your guy would be a shoe in. Not so much now.

The side destroying peoples property in the name of getting justice will be eliminated in about 2 weeks if it comes to it. I would like to believe we would use the teachings of Martin Luther King to effect change but instead it's vitriol and violence. The other side is just as guilty but they have the power. Their are legitimate ways to win when being the less powerful, history has taught us how but history is being revised.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2020

Post   » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:13 pm


You’re jumping to the conclusion that the black man was a BLM protestor, a Democrat, and part of “our side destroying property.” However, as we found out in the Minneapolis riots in my state, the protestors were not the violent rioters who damaged property.

The violence started with a number of white supremacists, many of whom mobilized here from other states including Kansas and Illinois. They had out-of-state plates on their SUVs and were planting containers of explosive liquids in residential areas to start fires. The white supremacists were members of the Hell’s Angels bike gang, the Aryan Cowboys biker gang which is a young “feeder” group for Hell’s Angels, and the Boogaloo Boys who are young heavily-armed second amendment fanatics. What they have in common is their opposition to law enforcement of any kind. They are anarchists and are considered terrorist groups according to the FBI, which tracks their activities using a variety of methods including social media. During the looting and destruction they were seen distributing illegal drugs to other rioters.

Certain neighborhoods who call on law enforcement for help are frequently left to defend themselves when police don’t respond. The neighbors have been on watch 24/7 to patrol their own neighborhoods, provide food and refreshments, have community gatherings, and keep the peace. No one should be left without police protection, but apparently this is standard practice in some neighborhoods.

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Catie Cavy
Supporter 2011-2020

Post   » Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:49 pm


Some of the violence and thuggery IS being practiced by Black Lives Matter. The protests that started in May in response to police brutality WERE broad, inclusive mobilizations organized largely by young people in thousands of towns large and small across the country. THOSE protests showed the way forward. However, the protests, many organized by BLM, have now devolved into organized rioting and looting by a handful of people. They are the opposite of what’s needed. We need to take lessons from the past (the labor mobilizations of the 1930s, the Civil Rights movement, the anti-Vietnam War movement). We need to organize broad, DISCIPLINED, peaceful actions. That is not the course of the current BLM leadership.

A handful of activists aren't going to force changes. Millions of people marching in the street will.

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mmeadow
Supporter 2004-2021

Post   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:42 pm


Catie Cavy, I agree that anything but the most peaceful protests turn people off. But thinking back to the civil rights movement--my mind's eye replays video of cops turning the firehoses on peaceful protestors. And the labor movement wasn't necessary peaceful. There was violence at the anti-Vietnam War protests at Kent State and the less-remembered Jackson State, but nothing to justify wildly shooting into the crowd of students. The actions of Chicago police at the 1968 Democratic Convention against anti-war protestors were found by an impartial commission to have met the description of "police riot".

There are a few protests that end with looting, but it is NOT organized and has nothing to do with any action on the part of BLM. (Video evidence has several times shown white activists breaking windows and then exposing them as organized far-right agitators.) Also, although I don't condone destruction of property, it breaks my heart that sometimes people seem more personally threatened by it versus the murders committed by police.

But hell yeah, we need millions of us marching in the streets!

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:03 pm


What I have read fits more with your description, mmeadow. I have never thought the purpose of Black Lives Matter was rioting and looting. That is not to say 100% of Black Lives Matter supporters are peaceful.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:01 pm


Agree. Mind you, I don't condone the violence or destruction, but I can certainly understand the anger and frustration at this point. Months of mostly peaceful marching and protesting brought no justice for Breonna Taylor whatsoever, and I'll be very surprised if there is any justice for George Floyd.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:03 pm


I've been on plenty of marches with BLM folks, and all of them have been peaceful. I'm not sure you can say that the course of BLM leadership isn't disciplined and peaceful actions when in nearly every protest over the summer the trouble has been instigated by far right activists or the police themselves.

Considering everything black people have been through in this country, and the backward direction the tRump administration has taken, I think they're pretty damn calm.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:06 am


I often think how the protests are framed is colored by the lens of who is doing reporting. I don't for one second believe Fox news reports are based on the facts alone without giving a spin to their reporting - ignoring contradictory information. And often the "opinion makers" make things sound like fact when they ignore the facts themselves.

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:55 am


Do not forget, the Russians are likely involved in inciting violence. I'm not saying they were involved in the most recent event, but their general goal is to disrupt the US and drive a wedge between us. They're on social media and I believe have agents provocateur in some protests. During the last election cycle, some Russians on Facebook organized a rally to which people actually came - having no idea. Nothing wrong with rallies, but they increase the perception of civil strife.

From 2017:
https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/media/facebook-black-lives-matter-targeting/index.html
https://thehill.com/news-by-subject/technology/352780-russia ... hat-targeted

According to the FBI, they're still agitating via social media even more intensely than in 2016. They want to weaken the US since a weaker US means a stronger Russia. That's why trump (= Russia) wants out of NATO. It's good for Russia.

I think a huge protest a la Belarus is in order. I'd like for trump to cower in his bunker again. But given what happened in the last peaceful protest in DC, I fear there might be loss of life among the protesters.

Erinspigs

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:15 pm


Bookfan I agree with you 100% They are controlling the narrative of politics in our own country.

I have a good friend I worry about often, and more so lately. He has a history of some mental health issues (substance) believed to have been overcome. There are gaps in his life never discussed. I think this has caused problems and may cause more. I found paperwork and one note in particular was so disturbing and difficult to understand the meaning.

Paraphrasing - So and So is no longer employed by the US Government, he has resigned by his own accord, was honorably discharged from the ___________. He is now involved in a higher form of Patriotism. No further information is available.

WTF does that mean!

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:38 pm


Sounds like militia or some sort of vigilante group? They're basically the same thing or overlap. But the wording is formal so who wrote it? The gov't? That doesn't sound right - at least I hope it's not. For various reasons, some people are vulnerable to being used by spies and some people get some really weird ideas about politics. It sounds like you're more concerned about home-grown extremist groups. I hope it turns out to be something more innocent than that.

Erinspigs, I'll bet you already know all of this. From things I've recently read from what I think are trustworthy sources, the Russians are the best in the world at spy-craft. And they've been doing it for at least 100 yrs, since the Bolshevik Revolution, especially, but not exclusively, trying to weaken Western Democracies. What's happened in the last few years is the internet and social media have allowed them to do influence ops on an industrial scale. And our spy agencies are scrambling to figure out what to do about it.

I need to make my grocery list. Otherwise I could go on all day on this subject, to everyone's chagrin.

GPIG

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:56 pm


EP one day I can tell you what that phrase means it is not militia or vigilante related at all. This isn't the place though.

I'm really not jumping to conclusions there is a growing faction being swept up in the fervor within the BLM who are carrying arms and advocating by any means necessary i.e. violence. This is a mistake for them on so many levels. They will be crushed like bugs and a movement with legitimate agenda will be eliminated.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:58 pm


Moving on...

This major story broke a short time ago in the NYT, which has obtained trump's tax information. I hope this is accessible to others; I'm able to read it:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html
The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.
It's a very lengthy read (45 pages) but this is HUGE and enormously damning: years of tax avoidance, money laundering, cons, and corruption.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:07 pm


As part of the same report, these key "takeaways:"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/trump-taxes-takeaways.html
  • Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined;
  • In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750 [emphasis mine];
  • He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service;
  • Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes...
...to name just a few.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:45 pm


And, Editor's Note on the report:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/trump-taxes-editors-note.html
A team of New York Times reporters has pored over this information to assemble the most comprehensive picture of the president’s finances and business dealings to date, and we will continue our reporting and publish additional articles about our findings in the weeks ahead...Our latest findings build on our previous reporting about the president’s finances. The records show a significant gap between what Mr. Trump has said to the public and what he has disclosed to federal tax authorities over many years.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:23 pm


About time! Must have made a deal with the devil - punishment while living will be sweet (I trust there will be punishable offences).

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:16 am


Proof positive that this man is nothing but a charlatan.

Thinking the Dems need to start practicing our chanting skills:
"Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!"

Bookfan
For the Love of Pigs

Post   » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:59 am


Yes indeed. :D

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