Protozoa in Bladder/Urine and Metronidazole

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:36 pm


Poops are an interesting subject! We had one member who collected tons of photos of poops. I recall some looking as you describe. Not sure of what (if anything) the fold means but I expect food changes, health changes, and medication changes all play a part.

If you are interested in wading into the poop topic, here you go!
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=68360

p.s. a dark colored poop with a fold in it appears on the first page (there are 11 pages!), identified as a healthy poop.

DevoutHaruhiist
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Post   » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:47 am


Thanks for the link!

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:35 pm


Noticed a lot of poops today but otherwise normal activity. I did want to post a picture of her poops for any feedback-- they do look different from before I started the treatment. Aside from some of them having the "fold" mentioned before, a lot of them have this lighter color and kind of "textured" looking appearance for lack of a better word. They are normal side and not particularly soft or anything so maybe it isn't a problem, but it does seem to be a slightly larger quantity than before and this different appearance.

(I noticed a potentially similar textured poop in the poop thread but didn't see any resolution on it from the time-- hoping it goes away as she gets further from her last dose (?))

https://imgur.com/a/sHQxUve

Image

^example

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:55 pm


Poop appearance depends a lot on what a pig is eating. Dark green hay produces dark poop, lighter hay or lots of light veggies produces light poop. As long as it's firm and well-shaped, I don't think the color matters much.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:53 pm


Oh, those are beautiful poops!

They are the kind I used to save, dry, shellac and make earrings out of! (yes, this actually happened years ago)

Edit - this was 20 years ago:
[SHOW]
Image

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2022

Post   » Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:22 pm


Way too creative! And each piece of jewelry is unique!

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:07 am


Haha, nice. Thanks for the votes confidence.

The only remaining thing I notice about them that's different is the odor. I never really noticed an odor from any GP poops before but if I get close to these and smell them they smell different. Hard to describe what the odor is in particular.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:20 am


The cecal feces (which look greenish and are eaten for their nutrition - B vitamins, etc.) are very aromatic and softer. It's possible there are trace odors.

Other than that, bacteria can grow on wet butt hairs. Sometimes due to a UTI or incontinence of some kind. Long haired guinea pigs can benefit from a butt trim and more frequent spot cage cleanings, especially if they stay in one area for long periods of time.

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:05 pm


Well this is odd timing but I am 90% sure Margaret has gone blind. Her (late) sister went blind at about age 3 and this looks similar. She was looking more nervous last night and sniffing around a lot, not reacting to a flashlight I was waving in her eyes. I know from her sister's experience that they usually adapt pretty quickly. Already today Margaret has been eating and wheeking as normal mostly. I will get her to the vet when I can to confirm.

Hoping she adapts as well as her sister did.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:51 pm


Glad you have experience with blindness in a guinea pig. The trick will be to have staples where she can find them but somehow encourage her to move around and explore. I guess fragrant vegetables might help!

Some info here:
http://www.guinealynx.info/eyes.html#blindness

Supposedly shining a light into the eye will reflect white in a blind guinea pig and typically red in one that is not blind.

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:13 pm


Yeah I have noticed so far she is just staying in about 1/2 of her cage (the half with the food and water, etc.). Unlike Elizabeth, her sister, who had Margaret in there with her, Margaret is alone in her cage. She does have a connected cage with two younger females that "interact" with her through the cage, so maybe their noise and activity will keep her active

Talishan
You can quote me

Post   » Wed Feb 02, 2022 6:04 pm


Guinea pigs' eyesight isn't the greatest to begin with, so most manage pretty well with reduced or lost sight. The biggest thing in my experience is not to move anything.

Hide house, food dish, water bottle, hay pile -- whatever setup you have, leave it in place. She needs to know where things are and should be fine as long as they're not moved.

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ItsaZoo
Supporter in 2022

Post   » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:40 pm


I saw a dog trainer one time that used scent to mark walls and furniture for a blind dog. They sprayed lavender along the baseboards and on the bottom of the furniture so when the dog learned boundaries. I know guinea pigs have a touchy respiratory system, but if there is a scent that could be used for the walls of the cage that might be helpful.

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:58 pm


Thanks for all the comments. She seems to be handling her blindness pretty well and getting around ok. I have been placing her veggies around in different spots in her cage so she walks around a bit. She seems to be able to find them pretty quickly.

That said I am still concerned about her having some other issues. Luckily I already had a vet appointment on the books for tomorrow afternoon [it's actually on her birthday :( ]to check on her blindness. But I have noticed a more serious issue with some pain while going to the bathroom and some at least slightly concerning weightloss the last few days (~1.5 oz in 4 days). She does have a long history of on and off UTIs but this time I checked her urine and did not see any blood. I am really unsure if the pain is when she is urinating or pooping yet.

It seems to be something that is only bothering her maybe 20% of the time. She still has a big appetite and is drinking plenty. Still going to the bathroom plenty and no soft stool (though stool still looks "strange" as I mentioned earlier in the thread, compared to how it was say a month ago). She is definitely doing some of the painful hunching/straining occasionally going to the bathroom, but I haven't heard her make noise about it too often. Really unsure what it could be unless it's another UTI or stone (she's had both).

Happy I will be going to the vet tomorrow and can hopefully reverse this trend (and hopefully get a solid diagnosis). It's been a tough 2022 for her so far.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:15 pm


I am sorry to hear she is experiencing some pain when peeing. I imagine you will get an xray to rule out stones? I hope it is not one - but they can recur. Let us know how it goes for her.

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:19 pm


Update from her vet appointment today:

1. She is definitely blind. There is no visible evidence of it really (eyes not milky or anything), but the vet said her retinas may have "detached"...unsure why and diagnosing why is hard

2. For the more pressing problem of her weightloss and discomfort he looked at some of her poop and urine. What he found with those poops (the weirdly lighter and textured ones I mentioned earlier in the thread) is that they are evidence of the full digestion process not happening and when he tested them it looks like her gut flora is lacking. These sort of poops might also be causing her discomfort when she passes them (they are drier and the hay, etc. has been digested less). This is probably as a result of the metronidazole affecting her flora.

He gave me a probiotic called "Proviable" (originally for cats and dogs, but obviously for her a smaller dosage) though did say he has not used it with guinea pigs. He also mentioned I could, as I think it says on the guinealynx page, feed her from poos from my other pigs. But something has to be done as she is still losing weight despite eating plenty.

Has anyone had any positive/negative experience with Proviable? It doesn't seem to be dangerous from my quick research but wanted to see.

And on top of everything else, she still has the protozoa in her bladder so the metronidazole did not really take care of the original issue in the first place, though he (and I) are less worried about that at the moment and more worried about her gut function. He also said I could give her some Metacam as needed if these poops are causing her a lot of discomfort, but I'll have to see about that.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:54 pm


Do you have a healthy guinea pig handy that you could get some poop from?

I don't know anything about Proviable. The probiotic most of us use and recommend is BeneBac, which comes in a formulation for small animals.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:29 pm


The poops from your healthy guinea pigs would hopefully be the cecal feces which are nutritious (a second pass of the food) and beneficial. They are generally greenish and smelly and hard to get your hands on (they are the feces the guinea pigs reingest).

If the Proviable is not excessively oily (this is the first inactive ingredient listed), it should be okay, especially if you are giving a very small amount.

I don't recall if anyone has suggested soaking hay but many guinea pigs like soaked hay - it adds more water to the diet and the soaking might make it more digestible. Since wet hay can mold, you would want to remove any uneaten hay in a timely manner.

DevoutHaruhiist
Supporter in '22

Post   » Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:33 pm


Thanks for the replies!

Yeah I notice both the Proviable and Benebac have mostly the same bacteria in them, which is good. But to your point those inactive ingredients may be an issue. From what I see they are both oil based with benebac being sunflower oil and proviable being soybean oil.

I do have two other young and healthy pigs that live in a separate cage next to Margaret's. I put them in an isolated area for awhile to "harvest" some poos but did not get an cecal ones.

I will try out the soaked hay thing as well. I hope her gut can restabilize before she loses too much more weight.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:49 am


The cecal poops would be better than the beans they drop. That may involve some digging around in their nether regions for the soft green smelly stuff -- that's what you're after. A q-tip makes a good shovel.

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