Sudden thirst increase, urine scald, high calcium, diet

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daj

Post   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:44 pm


Henry is a hairless male, about a year, I guess. I've had trouble with him getting blisters on his scrotum. It seems to resolve when I cut him back on calcium sources in green vegetables. So, I resort to a diet of orange bell pepper, cucumber, carrot, green leaf lettuce, a bit of sweet potato, Oxbow timothy hay and Oxbow Essentials pellets. I also tried Oxbow Garden Select for mature pigs.

Until now, Henry typically drank not so much. Now all of a sudden he is draining his bottle and wetting his quarters a lot. I took him to the vet today. His glucose is fine (tested by using a nail clipping... news to me) She concluded it could be a low level UTI and calcium crystals again. I just got Sherwood pellets to try, but none of my three will eat them. I even tried mashing them with grape and lettuce, but still no dice. He has been the biggest hay eater of the three. He will sit at the pile and just much away for long periods of time, while the other two are squirreled away in their boxes.

I thought the urine scald was my indicator on his calcium level. He has been free of it for a while now, so I am at a loss on the drinking. To me, the pellets seem like a necessary evil, in that they are a processed, cooked food. I eat a raw food diet, so the pellets look like a huge compromise to me. I realize they are fortified. I also don't like the fact that most of them use sweeteners like molasses to make them palatable. They seem like a junk/comfort food.

If anyone has any suggestions on diet or any other advice, I would most appreciate it.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:36 pm


How much of the pellets do they get in a day? You can also cut them back.

As for the excess drinking, pain and diabetes can cause them. I am leery of testing for glucose by clipping a nail - or do you mean they took a blood sample after clipping a nail? Any signs of stones? They can be painful too.
www.guinealynx.info/stones.html

Read over www.guinealynx.info/urine_scald.html If you get some Desitin, the cream will help protect against scald.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:55 pm


I wouldn't feed the Sherwood pellets, myself. They're VERY high in calcium.

I also doubt that the urine scald and the calcium levels have any relation to each other. Do try the Desitin -- it may clear things up.

daj

Post   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:21 pm


I don't give much of the pellets... less than 1/8 cup, about a pinch in the AM & same in PM. I also have Butt Paste for the scald. It seems to work better than the Desitin on him. I don't if they got blood from the nail. I asked but she said they just tape a piece to a piece of paper. Not sure if she meant PH or what. I should have persisted in questioning. He hasn't been tested for stones. I will have to read up on the subject. People seem to say the calcium is not an issue with the Sherwood pellets due to their having no sweeteners or unnecessary fillers. I guess I will keep trying different brands until something seems to make a difference. I thought I was giving him a diet that would avoid stones by cutting out all the things like kale, parsley, chard, cilantro, etc. That's why this seems especially puzzling.

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:48 pm


Some pigs will have crystals/stones no matter how you limit their diets, and others won't have them in spite of a high calcium diet. I once pig-sat for an elderly boar who ate a VERY high calcium diet. He lived to be eight, and never had a problem with crystals or stones. And I had a sow that developed stones twice in spite of being on a very strict diet that was supposed to prevent/reduce the chance of stones.

Most of what you'll see about Sherwood pellets is anecdotal. I haven't seen a single thing about them that didn't come from the developer, and as far as I know, they haven't been tested against any of the other pellets to see what effect they really have. And there's absolutely no guarantee that any pellet you give or don't give will make a difference.

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Sef
I dissent.

Post   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:17 am


Ditto bpatters. We have had incidences of stones despite all kinds of 'diets', various pellets, different water sources -- you name it. Some pigs are prone and others aren't, for whatever reason. Genetics may play a role, and I also suspect that previous UTIs could be a contributor. I have even wondered if certain antibiotics could alter urine pH enough to cause crystals to form.

We've had pigs who have had stones and gone on to live for quite some time with them and not needed surgery; others have had surgery only to have a quick recurrence; a couple of others didn't survive long past the surgery. Our Zachary (my avatar pig) was the most difficult situation, with stones in both ureters. It can be devastating.

I've spent years trying to find some common denominator in all of this, some way to prevent stones and sludge from occurring in the first place, but so far...no dice. Sherwood makes all kinds of claims, none of which has been substantiated. The guy who runs the show there once wanted to argue with me that one of our renal pigs was merely suffering from arthritis and not renal failure at all---and that his product would be a sure-fire way to treat swollen joints. (As far as I know, he has zero veterinary training and certainly wouldn't be able to diagnose something like that over the phone even if he had those qualifications.)

I don't have any useful suggestions over and above what has already been mentioned, but I can certainly commiserate.

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GrannyJu1
Supporter in '21

Post   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:15 am


This may be a stupid question, but are you sure he's actually drinking all that water? I've had a couple of pigs who just stand there and play with the nozzle until the bottle is empty, really soaking the fleece flipper.

daj

Post   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:53 pm


I am sure. His urine output confirms it. And thanks all for the enlightening conversation on pellets. The Sherwood is going on the compost pile. I recall seeing an organic brand a while back.I guess there is no one agreed upon best option? Is it the case that different pigs fare differently on the various options? I wonder why guinea pigs seem to be subject to so many scary health problems and why their optimal diet is not more clearly understood? The poor little creatures...

bpatters
And got the T-shirt

Post   » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:16 pm


As far as I'm concerned, KMS Hayloft pellets are the best on the market. They're often milled within a week of the time they're mailed to you, they're low in calcium, and the pigs love them.

daj

Post   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 4:49 pm


Awesome, thanks for the recommendation. Also, I should update on the excessive drinking, since I think we've gotten to the bottom of it. My brother in-law thought it might be the heat lamp I've been using. I realized there are infrared bulbs that are not actually red, but are like normal light bulbs. I have been using them because they give more heat than the non light producing ceramic bulbs. Since going back to the ceramic, the drinking has abruptly normalized. It seems the infrared was too drying. At least this seems to be the answer to my and Henry's problem. I can't tell you what a worry is lifted from my shoulders. It was so depressing to think he might have a serious medical issue. It looks like it was just a matter of too close proximity to the infrared bulb.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:59 pm


With any heat source like a heat lamp, it is helpful to have a really large cage so any animal can self regulate temperature and move away from the heat if it is excessive.

daj

Post   » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:43 pm


So, Henry is still drinking a huge amount of water. I changed his heat lamp to a non light emitting ceramic bulb and it seemed to make a difference for one day, but then he started with the drinking again. I've gone back to the infrared heat lamp because it puts out more heat, and I am having furnace issues that will not be resolved until 11-30-18. He is also showing signs of what I have been assuming is urine scald, although I do not believe it is from sitting on wetness, as I am meticulous/fanatical about keeping their quarters clean and dry. I check him daily and get Butt Paste on it immediately, and that halts things, but it seems to be ever threatening to recur. Now I am wondering if the two issues could be related.

My other two are in the same conditions, same diet, etc., but they have no issues. They are more pigmented and furry though. Henry does not show signs of pain with urinating or blood in his urine. He is perky, with good appetite and bowel function. The vet wants to test his urine for calcium carbonate, but I did that about 6 weeks ago. It was high, so I modified his diet. I limit his greens to green leaf lettuce and cucumber. He gets bell pepper, orange wedge, some sweet potato if he will eat it, pellets and hay. I just got the KMS pellets.

I will have to call the vet and question her on how she tested his glucose level from a nail clipping and how confident she is in the result. Should I take him in again for a different method of testing? How is this done, by drawing blood? I would hate to try an antibiotic without a better understanding of what could be going on. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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