Making a Substitute for Pellets

daj

Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:22 am


I want to take one of my pigs off pellets to see if it helps what might be interstitial cystitis. (Going to the vet today.) His pain seems worse when he's not getting KMS pellets, so I want to see how he does off pellets completely. I already give him wet hay which is infused with a mixture of liquefied pellets, shilintong and cantaloupe juice. All my pigs love this, so much so that I now have to give them all some of it. Actually I make a separate batch without the shilintong for the others.

I am hoping others can suggest what would be good ingredients. For instance, in addition to hay, I plan to get flax meal, pea flour or whole dried yellow peas, brewers yeast, dehydrated vegetables and some herbs. But, what about things like corn meal or oats? Would these be good choices? Might psyllium husk be good for a pig with a painful bladder? I am looking a ingredients lists on pellets, but in most all of them, there seem to be things I would prefer not to use, such as wheat. I would appreciate any help.

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:19 pm


You might want to in addition to your research look over the data linked to from this page on the nutritional requirements of guinea pigs:
https://www.guinealynx.info/nutrition.html

Be sure to read the above page thoroughly.

You can find the Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals, 1995 Fourth Revised Edition, here:
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/4758/nutrie ... ition-1995

Create a free account to download this for free.

Corn is nutritionally poor. Oats have lots of carbohydrates. Hay is better.

Diet is a complicated issue. There are tools here to point you in the right direction but I have no solid answers for you.

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pigjes
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Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm


I'm not a fan of psyllium husk, as it can cause abdominal discomfort, bloat and intestinal obstruction. I have a pig who refuses to eat hay most of the time, maybe the seldom few strands every now and then, and he survives on green oats instead of hay. So, green oats is great, if you can grind it in some way.

daj

Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:36 pm


Lynx, thanks. I will have a look. I understand hay is best, but I assume pellets are basically fortified hay. So, I am thinking in those terms, i.e. meeting their nutritional needs in addition to the hay, which mine have in abundance.

pigjes, Where does one get green oats? I have never heard of it. A search indicates it's a medicinal herb. Are you saying you feed it as a grass, instead of hay?

daj

Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:18 pm


The Nutrient Requirements of Laboratory Animals link in no longer valid.
After looking at the ingredients list of a lot of pellets, it seems to me all have some ingredients I would rather avoid. My suspicion would also be that even the best pellets would not be using the quality one could get by shopping in say, a health food store. I would think a substantial portion of typical pellets are there as fillers, in addition to some minimal nutrient contribution. My sense is that one could make a far superior feed, but the catch is getting the nutritional balance correct. What I've bought or will get so far is: flax meal, brewer's yeast, rolled barley flakes, sweet potato flour, molasses, liquid guinea pig multi vitamin. I will use a coffee grinder and start with very small amounts in their wet hay.

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Lynx
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Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:20 pm


You need to use the link I posted above and set up an account.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/4758/nutrie ... ition-1995

Read over https://www.guinealynx.info/pellets.html for an evaluation of some of the ingredients you mention, which can be crap.

daj

Post   » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:21 pm


OK, thanks on the link. On the ingredients, you mean the flax seeds? I don't see anything else I listed as being warned against. Even KMS has things like wheat, barley, soy hulls and soy meal. I can't see how wheat is advisable, as wheat has only relatively been hybridized to be productive enough to become used by humans. Prior to that it was one berry on the stem, I believe the story goes. I highly doubt wheat would have been part of a normal rodent diet, except for when they infested human stores. I am not a fan of wheat. I unsure on soy.

I feel like a small amount of flax meal will be good. I forget which pellets I've seen it in. It's in Oxbow Natural Science Multi Vitamin wafers:

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Lynx
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Post   » Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:29 pm


Flax seed and flax meal can go rancid pretty quickly. Make sure your nose is tuned to the rancidity!

The molasses you listed is one ingredient that I would skip (basically sugar).

I noticed on another topic you mention some of the things you are feeding. If you are interested in really evaluating the diet, it might be a good idea to do a detailed analysis of vitamins, minerals, calories, protein etc. of each item and weigh what you are giving in a day to come up with an idea of how well you are covering the various nutrients for a day's food. It would be a challenge and tedious but might help you tune what you are feeding and give you more confidence it is a good diet.

daj

Post   » Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:42 am


I have an excellent nose for rancidity, as I despise the odor and thought of eating any such thing. Rancid fats are disgusting. That's why I got seeds to make my own meal. I also always store all nuts, seeds, oils, etc. in the freezer. On the sugar, I would probably have to taper off, as one of my pigs is accustomed to his cantaloupe juice that I used to get him through the stones issue. I was thinking it was providing some nutrients as well, but it would also be adding some calcium as well.

And on analyzing the mix I've concocted, I agree. The first time I just went by a sense of what seemed like a good ratio, but I realize that's not good enough. I definitely plan to really, really refine my process and get things weighed and measured so I have a baseline from which to tweak things up or down. I have been looking at the Nutrient Requirements for Laboratory Animals, but it does seem like a flood of data. I haven't spent enough time with it though, to see how I might make the best use of it. Very glad to know of it though, so thanks!

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Lynx
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Post   » Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:47 am


Yes, using the Nutrient Requirements for Laboratory Animals is challenging because they base some of their data on rat/mouse recommendations. They also basically look at a kilo of food and knowing how much a guinea pig eats/needs is not necessarily known.

I have a breakdown of some of these issues on the nutrition and/or diet pages, I believe.

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pigjes
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Post   » Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:12 pm


Yes, I feed green oats daily, like hay. It's easy to fin in the EU, most pet stores sell it, even Amazon.

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Lynx
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Post   » Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:46 pm


Are the green oats you feed sprouted into a grass? Are they instead a grain harvested before maturity (in maturity, they would change color and store longer).

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