"Questran/Food Mix & Carafate"

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Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:36 pm


So I´m confused. What did I miss? Were there 3 vets?

No, 2 vets, one I took the the pigs too when I first got them, then the one who gave me the CC, Questran, Sulfatrim, and Carafate.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 7:54 pm


Also, I did mention to the vet on the phone, that they had the formula and I told her when we went last week. She didnt comment on it, except to say, maybe the reason for the intestinal problems were because they didnt nurse from their mother enough.

pinta

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:19 pm


They get nutrition and antibodies from their mom. I doubt lack of nursing would cause intestinal problems since many an orphaned pig has been handraised successfully. Babies can usually eat some solid food within 24 hours of birth. I had to handraise/supplement 4 babies before and after their mom, Hazel, died (10 days after their birth). They barely nursed at all. It took her many days to even produce milk and it wasn´t enough to sustain 4 babies.

I took
them to that same vet on Thurs and she acted as if she didnt remember that night I phoned her,


Still confused - a typo?

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 8:31 pm


I took
them to that same vet on Thurs and she acted as if she didnt remember that night I phoned her,

Still confused - a typo?

I am sorry Pinta, when I say same, I mean the same vet I phoned when they were just a few days old. The one who said they were to young for atb´s initially. They, meaning, the litter born on the 25th were eating veggies within about 24 hours of birth, that is why I didnt realize any problems with them, they were eating normally. The litter born on the 22nd was the ones I was most concerned about.

Josephine
Little Jo Wheek

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:53 pm


Pinta: Yes, that Similac stood out in my memory as well. It is certainly not balanced for cavies or even most other non-human animals. I would be seriously concerned about the iron causing possible problems (which could include the GIT) or many of the other minerals and added nutrients.

I have hand-reared pups that were less than 4 days old before and been very successful. I have also hand-reared pups that were less than a few hours old when orphaned (mom went toxic and couldn´t deliver the rest of litter and no vet would touch her soon enough). I don´t think they had any chance to nurse at all. They went on to live fairly normal lives. It is true that there are many trans-placental antibodies passed and I´m not advocating people intentionally orphan or raise cavy pups, but it can be done successfully even at early ages.

I have now come to the conclusion that hand-reared pups should get very little to NO milk replacement products at all. If possible, fostering the pups to another lactating sow is the best. I have never been so fortunate with mine. I get them on Critical Care, hay, veggies, and other solids ASAP. No aspiration risks and easy weaning (no "finger" imprinting). Healthy pigs. We just can´t duplicate cavy milk well enough even with the recipes and products available.
Kitten milk replacer or enriched goat´s milk have been used, but I have finally given up on them altogether for cavy orphan raising.
Last edited by Josephine on Mon Feb 11, 2002 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lisam

Post   » Mon Feb 11, 2002 11:53 pm


I completely agree with you, Josephine, about that. I have used kitten milk replacement in the past with mixed results. I feel that the milk of carnivores or humans, man made formula, and cow´s milk is just no good for these little babies.

pinta

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 12:08 am


I had no info at the time and just went on instinct. I made a slurry of pellets, cranberry juice and yogurt. The babies ate it from the spoon eagerly for about 2 weeks and then weaned themselves. By 3 weeks they no longer had any interest. At the time I had never heard of kitten milk replacement.

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ladyveg

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:30 am


Quick update. On 2/10 I listed their weights as 10, 9, and 9 oz. On 2/11 they were 11, 10, and 10, so they are starting to fill out.

I called Lori, but only her roommate was home so I couldn´t get as much detailed info as I wanted (she´s the person who has the baby with the bloated-looking belly). But she said they bathed the baby and although most of the yellow stuff came off, some of the stain was still in the fur. I do think that the problem with that baby must have been the Similac. Lori´s roommate told me the baby was doing really well, although she couldn´t give me any weights or anything.

So am I right to gather from the gist of these posts that perhaps it was the Similac that was causing problems for that litter? Some kind of iron overdose maybe, or too binding so it caused motility problems? I´m asking because I´m not sure what to recommend when I do get to talk to Lori. It sounds like the baby is doing better. I know I emailed her with some of the suggestions (Reglan, Critical Care, etc.) so maybe that´s all that´s needed.

The three boars here are doing great, as you can see they gained an ounce apiece in one day, so they´re growing. Their bellies already look rounder. I really do think it was the Similac that was the problems. Their poops are now not shriveled and black, but are the proper shape and color and have filled out as well.

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Lynx
Celebrate!!!

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:34 am


So they were getting the Similac just before they came to you? I sure am glad they are finally getting an appropriate diet.

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ladyveg

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:59 am


Well, I guess I can´t tell from this thread whether they were for sure or not. But I can´t think of any other explanation for the quick change.

Wheeks R Us

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 2:20 pm


Well, I guess I can´t tell from this thread whether they were for sure or not. But I can´t think of any other explanation for the quick change.

Rachel, as I have said, the last time they got Similac was in December. Thank you for making it look as though they never got food and were starved here. I dont know much about how piggies gain weight, meaning how much they gain daily, but I do know, they ate all day everyday.

pinta

Post   » Tue Feb 12, 2002 4:01 pm


I think Rachel is just relating what the changes are on her end. Being defensive won´t solve anything. Since the pigs are improving and they haven´t had Similac since December, then something else was causing problems(unless effects from Similac are longlasting).

Since the pig that died wasn´t autopsied no information can be gleaned from that.

If it was me I would seriously go through all that they ate and drank looking for abnormalities. All I can gather from this thread is that there was one or 2 pigs that mysteriously died(not real clear on how many died) and some pigs a vet felt had something wrong but couldn´t diagnose it. Main symptom seemed to be low weight and bloaty tummies, and small, misshapened turds.

If it was an infection then it would not have gotten better without drugs. Are they on drugs, Rachel?

If they are improving without drugs, I would definitely suspect something they ingested or something in the environment. Until you figure out what the problem is, all other pigs you have are at risk. Maybe these ones had compromised immune systems and were more drastically affected by an environmental or food trigger. Unfortunately any new pig to your home will be stressed and also have a weakened immune system. Until you figure out what the problem is, you will be putting any new pig at risk.

I have heard of whole herds dying from moldy hay. I would be extremely concerned if any of my pigs a had an undiagnosed illness. This is why we have unexplained deaths autopsied. To make sure the rest of the herd will be safe and just as important, to learn.

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