Gidget Medical Thread
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
The vet recommendations really vary (even vets will contact me to get a listing). They do, at least, focus on vets who work with guinea pigs.
So frustrating to have to deal with two issues and two antibiotics to treat them. I wish these two antibiotics could be used together successfully.
I cannot find anything specifically regarding combining sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim and orbifloxacin (the generic version of both drugs). I did find info indicating combining antibiotics may alter their effectiveness.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=using+multipl ... ime&ia=web
So frustrating to have to deal with two issues and two antibiotics to treat them. I wish these two antibiotics could be used together successfully.
I cannot find anything specifically regarding combining sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim and orbifloxacin (the generic version of both drugs). I did find info indicating combining antibiotics may alter their effectiveness.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=using+multipl ... ime&ia=web
- ItsaZoo
- Supporter in 2023
I was wondering about combining antibiotics, too, and did a Goggle search. Thanks for the link you posted, there is a lot of information. It looks like combining antibiotics really isn't effective.
I have been keeping a daily log and the vet is right, Sulfatrim was the most effective. While she was taking Orbax she developed the URI, which progressed really quickly and became so severe. When we switched to Sulfatrim, it was helping already after only 3 days.
Orbax was prescribed by my previous clinic for ear infection last year. I gave that to her for over a month hoping to be sure the infection was gone. Luckily she didn't have a URI at that time.
I've been feeding as much CC as I can, and she's getting Benebac and Vitamin C. I'll start the Sulfatrim in the morning and hope it kicks in by the weekend.
I have been keeping a daily log and the vet is right, Sulfatrim was the most effective. While she was taking Orbax she developed the URI, which progressed really quickly and became so severe. When we switched to Sulfatrim, it was helping already after only 3 days.
Orbax was prescribed by my previous clinic for ear infection last year. I gave that to her for over a month hoping to be sure the infection was gone. Luckily she didn't have a URI at that time.
I've been feeding as much CC as I can, and she's getting Benebac and Vitamin C. I'll start the Sulfatrim in the morning and hope it kicks in by the weekend.
- Lynx
- Celebrate!!!
It looks like combining antibiotics really isn't effective.
My takeaway was that it is unknown, unless you can find something that addresses particular combinations. There may be method to madness in how the antibiotic works and what bacteria it addresses but this is beyond my pay level.
Yay for records! It helps so much that you document things in determining what specifically works for her.
Edit: This scientific study is super! I only read the beginning so far but it also discusses the benefits of combining antibiotics - so there is hope! The researchers looked at 500 combinations. Will see if I learn more after I read more about the study. It is from July 4, 2018 so there might be more complete info on what drugs and bacteria they looked at somewhere else:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 135326.htm
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0278-9
My takeaway was that it is unknown, unless you can find something that addresses particular combinations. There may be method to madness in how the antibiotic works and what bacteria it addresses but this is beyond my pay level.
Yay for records! It helps so much that you document things in determining what specifically works for her.
Edit: This scientific study is super! I only read the beginning so far but it also discusses the benefits of combining antibiotics - so there is hope! The researchers looked at 500 combinations. Will see if I learn more after I read more about the study. It is from July 4, 2018 so there might be more complete info on what drugs and bacteria they looked at somewhere else:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 135326.htm
According to Nassos Typas, combinations of drugs that decrease the effect of antibiotics could also be beneficial to human health. "Antibiotics can lead to collateral damage and side effects because they target healthy bacteria as well. But the effects of these drug combinations are highly selective, and often only affect a few bacterial species. In the future, we could use drug combinations to selectively prevent the harmful effects of antibiotics on healthy bacteria. This would also decrease antibiotic resistance development, as healthy bacteria would not be put under pressure to evolve antibiotic resistance, which can later be transferred to dangerous bacteria."
If anyone has access to Nature, perhaps they can read the original study and let us know if any sulfa and enrofloxacin family drugs were used in combination. Note, sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim (Bactrim) and orbifloxacin (Orbax) were the two drugs we were originally looking at.General principles
This research is the first large-scale screening of drug combinations across different bacterial species in the lab. The compounds used have already been approved for safe use in humans, but investigations in mice and clinical studies are still required to test the effectiveness of particular drug combinations in humans. In addition to identifying novel drug combinations, the size of this investigation allowed the scientists to understand some of the general principles behind drug-drug interactions. This will allow more rational selection of drug pairs in the future and may be broadly applicable to other therapeutic areas.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0278-9
- ItsaZoo
- Supporter in 2023
I wish I could get the whole article. I was hoping our library had it but no, only the University of Minnesota and I have no connections there.
We started back on the Sulfatrim yesterday. She was eating and moving better yesterday. Today she’s more wobbly again. She staggers like she’s drunk. I fed quite a bit of CC a couple times today. When she chews I think I hear some stuffy nasal sounds so she got a steam treatment as well. Piggy ICU is a full time job and she’s getting really tired of all this attention.
We started back on the Sulfatrim yesterday. She was eating and moving better yesterday. Today she’s more wobbly again. She staggers like she’s drunk. I fed quite a bit of CC a couple times today. When she chews I think I hear some stuffy nasal sounds so she got a steam treatment as well. Piggy ICU is a full time job and she’s getting really tired of all this attention.
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- For the Love of Pigs
Bookfan's husband here, with some background information and commentary.
Bactrim is already a combination of two different antibiotics, sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim. Each of those blocks the production of folic acid (thereby interfering with the action of the bacteria - Bookfan). They don't affect you and me because we can't make folic acid anyway; we have to get it from our diet.
Orbifloxacin interferes with the production of RNA and DNA. You and I need to make RNA and DNA too, of course, but we don't do all the same tricks that bacteria do . In particular we don't do the trick that Orbifloxacin interferes with, so it doesn't affect us.
The authors of the study seem to suggest that if you're going to combine antibiotics, it's usually best to combine ones that have the same mode of action. Maybe that's why Bactrim combines two with the same mode of action. If you combine antibiotics with different modes of action, the results may be worse instead of better.
That surprises me. I would have expected the opposite. Well, I've been wro...I mean, surprised, before.
However all of this seems to be highly erratic and unpredictable. The results depend on the exact combinations of drugs and bugs.
Note that the study concentrated on three particular kinds of bacteria: E. Coli, Pseudomonas, and Salmonella. Unless Gidget is infected by one of those, this study is not going to be very helpful to her.
Bactrim is already a combination of two different antibiotics, sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim. Each of those blocks the production of folic acid (thereby interfering with the action of the bacteria - Bookfan). They don't affect you and me because we can't make folic acid anyway; we have to get it from our diet.
Orbifloxacin interferes with the production of RNA and DNA. You and I need to make RNA and DNA too, of course, but we don't do all the same tricks that bacteria do . In particular we don't do the trick that Orbifloxacin interferes with, so it doesn't affect us.
The authors of the study seem to suggest that if you're going to combine antibiotics, it's usually best to combine ones that have the same mode of action. Maybe that's why Bactrim combines two with the same mode of action. If you combine antibiotics with different modes of action, the results may be worse instead of better.
That surprises me. I would have expected the opposite. Well, I've been wro...I mean, surprised, before.
However all of this seems to be highly erratic and unpredictable. The results depend on the exact combinations of drugs and bugs.
Note that the study concentrated on three particular kinds of bacteria: E. Coli, Pseudomonas, and Salmonella. Unless Gidget is infected by one of those, this study is not going to be very helpful to her.
- ItsaZoo
- Supporter in 2023
Thank you for the explanation. The vet mentioned Sulfatrim should be used 14 days minimum, and no more than 3 weeks because it can cause B vitamin deficiency. Folic acid is in dark green leafy veggies and the pellets and CC are enriched as well, but it’s hard to know how much she’s getting.
I think it’s so interesting that somewhere a scientist said, “I don’t know how to kill these bacteria, but maybe if I can stop them from making folic acid …”
Anyway, we’re back on Sulfatrim and hoping for good results.
I think it’s so interesting that somewhere a scientist said, “I don’t know how to kill these bacteria, but maybe if I can stop them from making folic acid …”
Anyway, we’re back on Sulfatrim and hoping for good results.
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- For the Love of Pigs
I found it in "Gale Onefile Health and Medicine" and I entered the title & publication name in the advanced search - just in case your library has it. It's nice to know my brain still works well enough to remember some of my librarian skills.
Husband says there are spreadsheets you can open with data. He didn't look at them.
Husband says there are spreadsheets you can open with data. He didn't look at them.
- ItsaZoo
- Supporter in 2023
Gidget is having a tough time today. Her raspy breathing is back so we’ve done steam, had some CC and vitamin C, and she got her morning Sulfatrim. Back-to-back URIs really take a toll. I don’t know if inhalants like the old fashioned Vick’s eucalyptus would be beneficial. I could add that to the hot water for steam. Their respiratory systems are so touchy, I don’t want to make it worse.
- ItsaZoo
- Supporter in 2023
She had 3 steam treatments and 5 CC feedings today. Her nose was wet, she was sneezing, had some coughs, and was just so fatigued it was like picking up a Beany Baby. Tonight she started moving moving better and taking the CC from a larger syringe. Now she’s eating some hay and she ate some pellets. I just hope this continues. She’ll get another CC feeding before bed.
Keep sending good vibes this way, we need it!
Keep sending good vibes this way, we need it!